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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

491–500 of 541 posts

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#491

The standby experience is so bad on Linux laptops that I almost always shutdown and optimise for boot speed. On the MB a shutdown is quite rare and getting into the system takes 1s with the fingerprint reader. That’s such a huge difference it feels like magic.

I've mentioned it elsewhere in this thread, but installing TLP makes a huge difference for suspend on Linux laptops. https://linrunner.de/tlp/index.html

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#492

Battery life is the only thing stopping me from getting out of the Apple ecosystem. As soon as a viable Linux laptop with "enough" battery life becomes available, I'll make the switch. At that point there's nothing on Apple side that couldn't be done better in Linux (with a bit of work, but that's okay). I travel a lot, and often on standby for work during that time. I need to be confident that when I pull the laptop…

There's a few things for me, and the saddest part is I'm a very die-hard Linux user. Until a couple months ago when I had to start traveling, I've been using Linux exclusively for work.

1. The battery life, as others have mentioned.

2. The quality of the hardware: The screen is incredibly nice, the trackpad is VERY nice to use, and no other laptop has even come close.

3. It's so quiet. The fans almost never spin unless I've been compiling something for over a minute. I don't know how they do it but any other Linux laptop I've used, including desktops, have been super loud when running similar tasks.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#493
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a Linux issue (Though the hibernate issues are!). It's a PC issue. Microsoft went on a crusade making hardware vendors implement S0 next to S3 but most hardware vendors now _only_ implement S0. So that the laptop can keep phoning home and download updates etc whilst closed. Which means it's impossible to turn off the CPU during suspend. it's always on. PC as a laptop platform is a complete joke.

>So that the laptop can keep phoning home and download updates etc whilst closed. On Windows, network connectivity in S0 standby is optional: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/146593-enable-disable-ne... >Which means it's impossible to turn off the CPU during suspend. it's always on. Hibernation is still an option, if you don't mind a slower resume.

I need high ram laptop for work. It it way too expensive and slow to hibernate 128gigs laptop every few hours

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#494
Why has no one cracked this nut yet? I transitioned full-time to a Linux workstation in 2023 after years of driving macOS. I have an M2 air that is one of the best laptops ever made - and it really is a complete game changer when it comes to battery. I really don't think about charging it, and plug it in maybe once or twice per week. But I am longing for a slightly larger chassis and something I can run Linux on without any compromises. I was considering a Framework of all things - but this post bolsters my concern that Apple is really on a completely different level. tl;dr the age of the Linux desktop is 100% here, but we still have a lot of work to do for notebooks

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#495
post #408
post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

What's exasperating is that this has been going on for literally 20 years: > Pretty much exactly 19 years ago I got on a train to Oxford and made Mark Shuttleworth's laptop successfully suspend and resume using ACPI and that was the turning point in my entire career [1] [1] https://nondeterministic.computer/@mjg59/111249766634985812 10 years after that I bought a Macbook Air, and haven't gone back to Linux on a lapto…

Windows on my case, since Windows 7, although I kept a netbook with Linux around until it died.

While I can understand random Joe and Jane are at the mercy of reverse engineering while installing a Linux distro over the weekend, I expect that anyone selling Linux laptops as OEM, to actually get the specifications and have everything working as any other hardware vendor.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#496

Is this person using deep sleep? I always make sure I'm on deep sleep. I know it's gross: Put this in a file: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="mem_sleep_default=deep In /etc/default/grub.d/90_memsleepdefault.cfg Then run update-grub And reboot. Run this to check if deep sleep is enabled: cat /sys/power/mem_sleep If it says [deep] your good

This is "obsolete" S3 sleep. Newer CPUs don't support this.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never used sleep on my laptop. I always have the lid set to 'do nothing' when closed (i.e., stay on and keep running). In the past I gave up on using a macbook for many reasons, but a key one was that I couldn't keep the machine on when closing the lid. I can't fathom having to reconnect terminal sessions or other similar connections every time I want to move from one meeting room to another. Carrying my laptop…

There is a command line tool for this: "caffeinate". You can add a script that runs it while there are SSH sessions open.

It's a failing that I need to pre-empt every situation where I don't want the machine to sleep and run a tool to prevent it from sleeping, when I could usually just say 'don't sleep when I shut the lid'.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#498

Battery life is the only thing stopping me from getting out of the Apple ecosystem. As soon as a viable Linux laptop with "enough" battery life becomes available, I'll make the switch. At that point there's nothing on Apple side that couldn't be done better in Linux (with a bit of work, but that's okay). I travel a lot, and often on standby for work during that time. I need to be confident that when I pull the laptop…

Just get a power bank for your laptop. I know it’s not the best solution but $100 and you have a battery pack you can use for all your devices

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#499

Funny side story is years ago when AMD was developing the Opteron A series I commented somewhere that AMD is making a terrible blunder and is going after the wrong market. They needed to start the other way around, and build a kick ass Arm + GPU SoC that was more akin to a PC in terms of performance and not a throw away raspberry pi SoC. Bigger caches, wider memory bus, PCIe e.g. for NVMe, powerful GPU. Essentially s…

For that, you'd actually need a high performance ARM core on one side (and frankly, it's just Apple at that point, they needed well over a decade to get there), and you need some way to make legacy x86/x86_64 applications to run smoothly to get over the chicken-egg effect, and you need some way for all the legacy hardware devices that people plug in into their computers. Apple could do it not just because of their ex…

Well the architectural backwards compatibility issues are Apple's problem really. I was thinking of a pure Arm machine running Linux/BSD/9.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said "Disabling animations . . . is not even an option on Apple's operating systems." That is quite simply false.

One can not disable the animations on MacOS. I would very much like to be wrong. Please tell me I am wrong and how to disable animations, especially when swapping between desktops.

> disable animations, especially when swapping between desktops

When I first started using a mac for dev at my current job, I tried their virtual desktops implementation as a workaround for macOS's lack of alt-tab support. That desktop switching animation is so long it's honestly really funny, I just sat there for a minute switching around and laughing my ass off in disbelief at how slow it is. Unfortunately it does also make the feature completely unusable, so we're just stuck with one desktop and a gimped alt-tab. Just an absolute usability train wreck going on over at Apple.

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