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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#131

Post by dangus »

As someone who moved from an MacBook Pro I share the pain, but I also made the following adjustments:

1. I just shut down the computer fully more often. It’s annoying so I don’t always do it, but I’ll do it if I know I’m not using the computer as much.

2. I carry a 98Wh battery pack with me. If my laptop is fully dead it’s not a big deal because a full battery pack charges it all the way up, or if both are full it extends the battery life to be MacBook level. Since the framework is lighter than my Mac was anyway it’s not such a big deal.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#132

Post by nehal3m »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #96
dmm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a Mac, you can switch between apps with Command-Tab or windows of the same app with Command-` but there's no way to cycle between all windows or bounce between to two most recently used windows. Maybe this used to make sense when apps were single purpose but I do basically everything in a web browser or a terminal so not being able to bounce between the previously selected window(of whatever kind), as I can with A…

For web apps, spinning them into “installed” apps (doable in both Chrome and Safari now) is the move. This unclogs your tab bar, gets rid of the pointless persistent browser chrome, and gives you the benefit of OS task management capabilities. You can add Shift to both Command-Tab and Command-` to move in the reverse direction.

Also I find the default Command-` to be unintuitive, especially on non-US keyboards (` is next to left Shift for me). I remapped Command-` to Option-Tab so you only have to move your thumb.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#133

Post by dangus »

aurareturn wrote: post #60
usrbinbash wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What mission do you love from Framework? Is it environmental? The fact that I can repair it, exchange every part, get every part, upgrade every part, and I never have to use a hairdryer or heat gun to do so.

Are you willing to pay 2x the price for a Framework and get a worse overall experience in exchange for repairability? Keep in mind that the Framework spare parts are generally also pretty expensive.

It’s not 2x the price, I paid under $900 for a brand new one.

Battery is $60. How much does a MacBook battery cost? How long does a MacBook battery take to repair and how much skill do replace need to replace it? How do you upgrade the storage capacity on a MacBook?

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#134

Post by deepsun »

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

No, Linux is not the issue -- my System76 Lemur holds 14+ hours. Haven't used X1 Carbon for a while, but it also held way longer than Framework.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#135

Post by Nevermark »

trueismywork wrote: post #116
didacusc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

I just got a work Mac and I have spent around 20 years now on linux before it. I was making a list compared to KDE (not pros/cons just differences) It is still a work in progress since its only a couple of days since im using it. 1. No delete button. I know you can do Fn delete but It is more problematic. And I do use delete often. 2. System keeps important system stuff in Library directory in home. Do not do remove…

> The spaces dont wrap around.

Indeed. I would love it if I could name spaces too. Amazing how little details improve productivity.

> It seems that I cannot have windows of same app in multiple spaces.

Right-click app icon in dock.

For different app windows in the same app, appearing in different spaces: Options->Assign to Desktop->None.

For app windows appearing across all spaces: Options->Assign to Desktop->All Desktops.

("Desktop" here actually refers to spaces, for some reason. And it would be nice to be able to do "All Desktops" at the window level, but nay.)

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#136

Post by fpoling »

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

I really do not understand why hibernate under secure boot is not implemented on Linux and this continues for years.

It is as if the features are implemented by completely different people. But this is not obviously the case since systemd supports both and actively improving both.

Note for me hibernation is a security measure and not about saving battery. I am traveling sometimes with the laptop and risk of theft is non-trivial. If it is hibernated, then it is just a property loss. But with just suspend there is a chance that the data can be extracted. So I configured it to hibernate automatically after 15 minutes in suspension. Surprisingly it has been working reliably with Linux.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#137

Post by nagisa »

N-Krause wrote: post #46
jeffbee wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can’t hibernate (aka suspend to disk) you will never be able to get that power consumption low. This is cope. An Apple Silicon Macbook does not need to suspend to block devices to save energy (they only do this when the battery is empty). ChromeOS doesn't offer hibernate at all. The only reason that a Framework can't have good battery life in an operating state is that nobody is paying attention to the detai…

And what are those details? Sounds like you know specifics that I'd like to also know. If you're claiming it is just an oversight, then please back it up.

While I don't have any suggestions on how to look at the relevant metrics, a big part of the issue is the parts selection and having them power off properly.

1%/h is just 0.5W (for a 50Wh battery) which isn't a lot, but fail to bring a component or two to shutdown or sufficiently low power state and you'll observe exactly this behaviour. Of course some drain is going to be almost inevitable just to keep memory contents sufficiently refreshed, but with proper power-saving states memory can go appreciably below 0.5W.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#138

Post by bo1024 »

whatarethembits wrote: post #43

Battery life is the only thing stopping me from getting out of the Apple ecosystem. As soon as a viable Linux laptop with "enough" battery life becomes available, I'll make the switch. At that point there's nothing on Apple side that couldn't be done better in Linux (with a bit of work, but that's okay). I travel a lot, and often on standby for work during that time. I need to be confident that when I pull the laptop…

I think you could shut down a framework, swap the battery, and boot back up in probably 3 minutes or maybe only 1.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#139

Post by torstenvl »

lynndotpy wrote: post #126
torstenvl wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say it isn't an option? defaults write com.apple.finder DisableAllAnimations -bool true

Because there is no option to disable all animations. Despite the name, that doesn't disable all animations. (In fact, I couldn't even find an animation that does remove.)

You said "Disabling animations . . . is not even an option on Apple's operating systems."

That is quite simply false.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#140

Post by mrbonner »

seabrookmx wrote: post #122

The article is pretty light on details. Whether the Framework is worth it to you really depends on your use case. I never leave a laptop in my bag for three weeks, and if I do I have the foresight to actually shut it down rather than sleep it. So the battery drain while sleeping is less of a problem for me. My Framework 13 has the Ryzen 5 AI 340 Chip, and I get 5-6 hours of work on a charge. The Macbooks definitely b…

Let's me try to give you the solutions to your problems using Mac.

1. Homebrew: I use Nix package manager (with home manager, though you don't need to) and get rid of homebrew completely.

2. Docker: I assume you referred to Desktop version. You can just just Colima and the Docker/Compose CLI. You will get rid of all the bloats coming with Desktop. Bonus: see #1 for installing Colima and Docker CLI.

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