Why Canada Should Join the EU • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#491

Post by bombcar » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 2:54 AM UTC

protocolture wrote: post #455

threeseed wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Young Canadians doubly so Similar situation in Australia and US. And most of it misplaced. One major issue is trying to buy a first home where the blame goes towards immigrants. Instead of towards older generations where the problem really lies. They apply political power across multiple levels of government to affect everything from planning, taxation, inheritance which systemically prevent young people getting in…

Our problem is that state governments have never reached their population growth based land release targets. And zoning laws are fairly ridiculous. One study found that something like 70% of the cost of owning a home in Sydney comes from zoning and land release issues. That is, a bit of reform in zoning laws and a heap of land being released could see a 1 million dollar home being available for 300k. That said, so mu…

That’s just supply and demand in another way, you could also argue the number of houses is fine you just need fewer people.

In either case you’re saying “make the number of houses correct for the number of inhabitants” - of course an obvious answer is “build more houses” but that can’t always work - San Francisco can’t remain SF at the density of Singapore. It’d still exist, but it wouldn’t be what it was.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#492

Post by slothtrop » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 2:56 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #457

slothtrop wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will boomers, the richest generation, ever do? This is overstated. The alarm was sounded on this 2 decades ago for several east Asian countries, but they're not on fire. They're fine. Old people die. If the fertility rate mattered that much, they'd have scrambled to make any number of policy changes including better work-life balance (see: Japan, SK, China), or plain ol' immigration, but they don't because it si…

> but they don't Japan enacted new immigration policies last year to allow more migrants as well as improved parental leave. South Korea has been in political turmoil for last year but lots of work is being done on immigration.

The current net migration rate for Japan in 2024 is 0.489 per 1000 population, a 5.23% decline from 2023. I foresee a marginal increase.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#493

Post by bombcar » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 2:56 AM UTC

dh2022 wrote: post #225

ipaddr wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inheritance goes to young people in the same family. I doubt that is holding back the young people who get it. Immigration keeps salaries low which is great for companies bad for young people. Immigrants of a similar age want the same type of housing. Young people starting out cannot afford their parents home. They compete for the same resources. Older generations are least affected.

These days inheritance almost all the time goes from very old people (70-80 years old) to old people (50-60 years old). It almost never goes to young people

This is more true than people realize; it seems every week in bogleheads there’s a question that’s basically “how can we use the inheritance we just got to help our grandkids get a leg up without huge tax implications?”

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#494

Post by ww520 » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 2:57 AM UTC

It's a terrible idea to join the EU. You cede your control on economic policies to some central bureaucrats in Europe while holding the bags to pay for all the local societal infrastructure and welfare. You won't have enough political power to direct the flow of economic activities to your local region. Germany will suck up most of the economic benefits.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#495

Post by rawgabbit » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 2:58 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #348

rwultsch wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly enough I am visiting Japan right now. There are lots of foreign workers in service jobs. They speak zone language and don’t jay walk. Prices feel like a middle income country, but that is just the Yen sucking. Otherwise it feels very first world.

>Prices feel like a middle income country, but that is just the Yen sucking No it isn't. In purchasing power terms Japan has been, or is about to be overtaken by Poland and Slovakia [1]. This is largely due to demographics and the declining share of the working age population. There is nothing that impoverishes countries more. Gradual decline feels fine for a while, until it doesn't when the bulk of the workforce age…

Japan demographic crisis is due to a mismanaged economy where many Japanese leave the country to find work. They are also not interested in mass immigration.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2018/11/12/perceptions-of...

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#496

Post by bombcar » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 2:59 AM UTC

gedy wrote: post #200

skissane wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a real difference between immigration to Canada and immigration to Europe. Canada's immigration policy is on the whole highly selective, focused on skilled immigrants. The largest category of immigrants is professionals. Immigration laws are enforced and illegal immigration is relatively low. Refugees are admitted, but the government retains control over the numbers, the source countries, which indiv…

> But the majority of immigrants to Canada are well-off, educated – so unlikely to get involved in social problems like crime or terrorism, and they tend to integrate well with mainstream society. This seems to be very out of sync with the opinions of the Canadians I know, and the recent public issues with heavy immigration of unskilled males from the Punjab.

There is a slight of hand that is done in these arguments - some take “immigrant” to mean “anyone who was not born in Canada” and others take it to mean “any non-citizen/temp worker”.

Those are two vastly different groups even if one contains the other.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#497

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 3:00 AM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #367

jt2190 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is in a demographic crisis: The birthrate is too low, the population is aging and the country can’t afford to provide people with all of the social benefits AND have no laborers paying in to the benefit system. Importing lots of young labor rebalances the demographics and bolsters funding of benefits, at the expense of a housing crisis and social tensions. The alternative is to deeply cut benefits, which is po…

I don't think we have that much of demographic crisis. First of all, the aging population is the one with all the wealth. And secondly, as Boomers, they are a very large generation but will soon be dying off. But more to point, this is nothing new. We have always had immigration to offset low birth rate. I'm more inclined to believe that the recent importing people en masse has benefited a few large employers of low…

>First of all, the aging population is the one with all the wealth.

The working age population is the wealth. For example, you can have a country with 90 retired people and 10 working people. The 90 retired people can have $1M or $1B or $1T in their accounts, but it isn't going to matter if they have insufficient products/services to buy. The money just provides a relative ranking of what proportion of product/service is allocated to whom.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#498

Post by xamdam » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 3:02 AM UTC

Because that's where countries go to die?

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#499

Post by tharkun__ » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 3:03 AM UTC

ww520 wrote: post #494

It's a terrible idea to join the EU. You cede your control on economic policies to some central bureaucrats in Europe while holding the bags to pay for all the local societal infrastructure and welfare. You won't have enough political power to direct the flow of economic activities to your local region. Germany will suck up most of the economic benefits.

It's funny how the people of Germany think of this in exactly the same way you describe, except for that last part. They replace that by "country X will suck up most of the economic benefit".

Meanwhile the policies the EU makes are created by politicians from each of the EU member states. Some of them being originally proposed by politicians from the very countries whose citizens decry them the most.

It's fun to draw parallels to "the federal government sucks for reason X" in the US.

Truly poetic to watch.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#500

Post by bombcar » Sat, Jan 04, 2025, 3:05 AM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #351

paxys wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has a population of 40 million in a land area larger than the USA. That's hardly "too many people". Too many people in a handful of dense urban centers maybe, but overall the country is basically empty.

> but overall the country is basically empty. Can people live in the empty parts of Canada?

The empty parts start just outside the cities, so obviously yes.

The thing is there is no REASON to; a city can’t really be self-fulfilling until after it has grown for some other reason (oil, or crops, or shipping, etc).

I suppose Canada could chose to move the capital to some small town in Nunavut and cause a population boom there.