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Jimmy Carter has died

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Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#491

Post by bhouston »

settrans wrote: post #484
bhouston wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that most of the West Bank, if not all of it, will be annexed during the Trump administration right? And probably half of Gaza will be annexed as well. It is the end of any two-state solution. Not clear what will happen to the Palestinians there, but it probably won't be great for them. Huckabee, the new US ambassador to Israel, supports both policies per: https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-ambassador…

No, it won't be. Israel doesn't want to grant citizenship to the 3 million Arabs who live there, the vast majority of whom would like to annihilate the state of Israel. There is no plausible path forward for Israel to annex Jenin, Ramallah, Tulkarm, etc., without forcibly expelling the Arabs living there - and that would be wildly unpopular, to say the least.

> No, it won't be. Israel doesn't want to grant citizenship to the 3 million Arabs who live there, the vast majority of whom would like to annihilate the state of Israel

There is a plan for this though. The pressure is building in the West Bank with attempts to cut PA funding/banking and expanding settlements.

Details:

https://mecouncil.org/blog_posts/a-crisis-averted-in-palesti...

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/29/middleeast/west-bank-conflict...

Some like Yair Wallech says the Israeli right is trying to start an uprising so they can pull a Gaza on the West Bank Palestinians:

https://bsky.app/profile/yairwallach.bsky.social/post/3leicm...

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#492

Post by JKCalhoun »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #295
consumer451 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming Kennedy is a take I hadn't heard before. I always gave the folks behind Reagan a lot of credit, as it is a historical fact that they conspired with a foreign power to hold the American hostages until after the election. > A Four-Decade Secret: One Man’s Story of Sabotaging Carter’s Re-election > A prominent Texas politician said he unwittingly took part in a 1980 tour of the Middle East with a clandestine age…

Reagan's entire administration was swamped in corruption and scandals. People really don't remember just how many investigations, charges, and convictions there were. People only remember Iran-Contra and the hostage crisis; it was so much worse. Reagan even cheated in a televised debate; someone stole Carter's notes and gave them to Reagan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandals_of_the_Ronald_Reagan_... Ronald "Small…

When I was taught the Metric System in elementary school it felt like we were being whisked into the future. I know it may sound like I'm putting too fine a point on it, but by joining the rest of the developed world (and more specifically, the scientific community) it felt like a step along a path to a global community.

Reagan tossed the whole thing and we were snapped back to feet, inches, ounces, pounds, Fahrenheit.

I have photos from road trips in the late 70's where Federal highway signs, like on mountain passes, have the elevation indicated in Meters. When I used Google street view I see we're back to regressive signage.

I know, a minor nit.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#493

Post by JackFr »

lolinder wrote: post #300
consumer451 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming Kennedy is a take I hadn't heard before. I always gave the folks behind Reagan a lot of credit, as it is a historical fact that they conspired with a foreign power to hold the American hostages until after the election. > A Four-Decade Secret: One Man’s Story of Sabotaging Carter’s Re-election > A prominent Texas politician said he unwittingly took part in a 1980 tour of the Middle East with a clandestine age…

> Confirming Mr. Barnes’s account is problematic after so much time. Mr. Connally, Mr. Casey and other central figures have long since died and Mr. Barnes has no diaries or memos to corroborate his account. But he has no obvious reason to make up the story and indeed expressed trepidation at going public because of the reaction of fellow Democrats ... > None of that establishes whether Mr. Reagan knew about the trip,…

Further it’s far from given that had the hostages been released Carter would be re-elected. 1980 was the second straight year of double digit inflation.

Reagan was elected with 51% of the popular vote to Carter’s 41% and carried 44 states to Carter’s 6(+DC), tallying 489 electoral votes to Carter’s 49. This was not a close election.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#495

Post by settrans »

bhouston wrote: post #485
settrans wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alleged patch suggests that there is some Israeli ambition to conquer all of the Levant. There is no such Israeli settler movement. As far as Lebanon, there is no mainstream support whatsoever to settle north of the Blue Line. The article you linked describes the idea as "far-right". I would invite you to talk to an Israeli and ask them what they think about Israel annexing Lebanon. Gaza is entirely different. Th…

It is an ideology that is gaining popularity in Israel though. I am regurgitating what Israel's own Finance minister is saying. "In an interview for the documentary, In Israel: Ministers of Chaos, produced by European public service channel, Arte, [Israel's Finance Minister Bezalel] Smotrich claimed that Israel would expand “little by little” and eventually encompass all Palestinian territories as well as Jordan, Leb…

I have little desire to defend Smotrich (nor would Israelis, as his extremist party is currently polling at ~3% support), but even he wouldn't dare claim support for something as far-flung as the alleged "Greater Israel" ideology.

On the contrary, after Smotrich was merely perceived to lend support for expansionism, having spoken at a conference behind a graphic reminiscent of the Irgun's emblem depicting the entire Mandate for Palestine, it triggered a minor diplomatic incident, and the Israeli government immediately apologized to Jordan and clarified that Israel is committed to maintaining its peace agreement with Jordan.

But all of this is a smokescreen: Israel is a democracy desperately suing for peace with its neighbors, and at no point in history has initiated a war to expand its borders (or for any other purpose). There is no popular support for attacking or invading Israel's neighbors within the country, and there has never been such a policy in the country's history.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#496

Post by SideQuark »

datavirtue wrote: post #425
SideQuark wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming Kennedy is not supported by the absolute crushing Carter got by himself in the 1980 election, losing the electoral college 489/538 (4th biggest in history). This isn’t due to some unsuccessful Kennedy run. Reagan set the highest such win 4 years later with 525/538 electoral votes. Carter was quite unpopular with the public after such poor economic performance. 15% inflation is the worst in modern times; it wo…

I'm amused by the fact that everyone always blames the person who has been explicitly isolated from having any economic power, the president. The electorate just seems to bully the president in this regard.

The President has immense economic power, more than any other person in the US. One example is the ability to levy tariffs at a whim, make and break and alter trade treaties, appoint various economic players such as fed reserve members, and a host of other actions.

What single person do you think has greater power?

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#497

Post by genman »

bhouston wrote: post #237
siltcakes wrote: post #15

Carter was the most pro-Palestinian president of the 20th century. It's worth reading his book Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine:_Peace_Not_Apartheid

I would argue that he was pro-peace. He wanted both Israel and Palestine to exist, not one at the expense of the other. Just as he peace treaty with Egypt was pro-Peace not pro-Egyptian. For this reason he opposed Israeli settlements in the West Bank saying they were leading to a situation akin to apartheid, eg https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-... It wasn’t very successful as a proposition…

[flagged]

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#498

Post by settrans »

bhouston wrote: post #491
settrans wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it won't be. Israel doesn't want to grant citizenship to the 3 million Arabs who live there, the vast majority of whom would like to annihilate the state of Israel. There is no plausible path forward for Israel to annex Jenin, Ramallah, Tulkarm, etc., without forcibly expelling the Arabs living there - and that would be wildly unpopular, to say the least.

> No, it won't be. Israel doesn't want to grant citizenship to the 3 million Arabs who live there, the vast majority of whom would like to annihilate the state of Israel There is a plan for this though. The pressure is building in the West Bank with attempts to cut PA funding/banking and expanding settlements. Details: https://mecouncil.org/blog_posts/a-crisis-averted-in-palesti... https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/29/midd…

I don't see anything in those articles that describe a plan or even the framework of a policy to annex the territories.

There just isn't a workable path forward to accomplish it. The Arabs who live there harbor irredentist fantasies to overthrow the Israeli government and replace it with Hamas or some other dictatorial organ, and as long as that is true, Israel has no desire to hand out citizenship to those people.

Of course, the minute that ideology becomes anathema among Palestinian Arabs, the whole point is moot because Israelis will have their security and a two-state solution would immediately become workable.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#499

Post by BluSyn »

energy123 wrote: post #398
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More deregulation passed under Carter than Reagan.

Deregulation isn't automatically bad or good. Some regulations need to be removed, and some shouldn't be removed or should be added.

Reasonable take not allowed. Must be for or against so I know what ideological bucket to place you in based on current tribal alliances that may or may not change.

Re: Jimmy Carter has died

#500

Post by HaZeust »

acdha wrote: post #397
trhway wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He got scared of their right to carry arms back then as a CA governor and started the gun control there.

Prior to the NRA’s big push in the late seventies, gun control as a concept was uncontroversial as the first gun control laws dated back to the earliest days of the country. Reagan expanding coverage due to the Black Panthers was in line with earlier precedent (after Kennedy was assassinated, during WWII, during the Mob / prohibition era, etc.).

A bit more nuanced than that; the NRA didn’t become the hardline defender of minimal gun regs until its 1977 leadership shift. Reagan’s 1967 Mulford Act as Governor targeted the Black Panthers, and then he signed 1986 FOPA as president, which relaxed some rules but banned new machine guns. It was a broad compromise package from the start.
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