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The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

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Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#491

Post by naijaboiler »

grogenaut wrote: post #487
naijaboiler wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So tech bros have become experts in pedagogy. What if a teacher starts telling what the best way to write software for a large codebase that 1000s of engineer contribute to is, based on their experience of writing ten lines of code to some toy problem that teacher once faced. Think about it. That’s what you just did here. The better thing to do is state your experience as your experience and leave opining on optimal…

this is all my opinion and what works for me... sorry if that wasn't explicitly stated at the top

That part was clear. It was when you started opining on “what’s better” that I felt you stepped way way out of your area of expertise. You really have no grounds to say what’s better

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#492

Post by sangnoir »

com2kid wrote: post #485
sangnoir wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also as others have pointed out, please stop crapping on the trades I never "crapped" on the trades like you imagined I did, they are a perfectly fine career choice.

You said > I wouldn't commit a kid who struggles with math in 3rd grade to a life in the trades. Which has a lot of implications: 1. That someone who is bad at math has to go into the trades, ignoring that many trades require quite a bit of math and that plenty of college degree programs hardly require any math at all 2. That kids are being told in 3rd grade that they have to go into the trades based on math scores,…

> Which has a lot of implications

None of which I expressed in my brief comment, but you're projecting from what others have said or done. You are arguing against a stereotypical position I do not hold, and I have no desire keep explaining how I don't hold the position you insist on ascribing me to.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#493

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

tptacek wrote: post #480
dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is innate, with a high degree of heritability. No one questions physical traits are innate, but some how when it comes to IQ it become highly contested... Why, do think otherwise?

You are using the word "heritable" as evidence for the "innateness" of a trait. "Innate" can mean multiple things, but the implication here is that it implies genetic determinism . Heritability statistics do not establish genetic determinism and, for intelligence, there's now substantial evidence in the other direction.

>You are using the word "heritable" as evidence for the "innateness" of a trait.

Hmm... not quite... ( 2 different things with overlaps, and remember I never used the term genetic)

>there's now substantial evidence in the other direction.

Links, please. ( would be surprised if it overturned all past observations)

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#494

Post by tptacek »

dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #493
tptacek wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using the word "heritable" as evidence for the "innateness" of a trait. "Innate" can mean multiple things, but the implication here is that it implies genetic determinism . Heritability statistics do not establish genetic determinism and, for intelligence, there's now substantial evidence in the other direction.

>You are using the word "heritable" as evidence for the "innateness" of a trait. Hmm... not quite... ( 2 different things with overlaps, and remember I never used the term genetic) >there's now substantial evidence in the other direction. Links, please. ( would be surprised if it overturned all past observations)

Before I do that, can you confirm for me what you believe "heritability" to mean?

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#495

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

tptacek wrote: post #494
dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are using the word "heritable" as evidence for the "innateness" of a trait. Hmm... not quite... ( 2 different things with overlaps, and remember I never used the term genetic) >there's now substantial evidence in the other direction. Links, please. ( would be surprised if it overturned all past observations)

Before I do that, can you confirm for me what you believe "heritability" to mean?

Heritability: Black kid born to black parents. The blackness is heritable

Innate: Albino kid born to black parents ( mutation, etc..) So here Albinism is innate to kid but not inherited.

That's a black and white definition ( for the sake of conversation). There can be intermediate states. For example even if the kid's skin is black there can be variation in skin tone, so slight mutation, but still largely inherited.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#496

Post by disqard »

pier25 wrote: post #489
disqard wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be willing to share any (anonymized) anecdote(s) that helped you see this reality? I'll share that I saw how much EdTech was infested by folks trying to leverage "gamification", and I read Kentaro Toyama's "Geek Heresy". That, and other events like Sebastian Thrun admitting "We have a lousy product" (on MOOCs) was enough to disabuse me of any notion that our generation's EdTech hype would prove any differen…

I worked leading the digital product of an education company with a whole methodology, books, teacher coaching program, etc. The education guru of that company talked a lot about Estonia, Finland, and Singapore as models of the best education in the world (pre college). These countries get consistently good PISA scores. And guess what? Close to zero tech in education in these countries. Some papers were released that…

Thank you for sharing that!

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#497

Post by tombert »

xp84 wrote: post #490
tombert wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got kind of double-lucky in my case too. When I dropped out, I assumed that my job options were limited to minimum wage work, so I applied to McDonald's, Lowes, Target, Walmart (as a cashier), Aldi, and a few other places in one day (driving around the Orlando area). When I got home, sort of on a whim I applied to junior-level Coldfusion+Flash job I saw on Craigslist, thinking that there's no chance but it also did…

I think you might be right about why you didn’t get the retail job callbacks. On the other hand I bet today that’s no longer the case, because it’s so hard to find anyone to staff a retail job who is even remotely competent or reliable. Even if you did quit 3 months later, that’s probably above average now. Happy for you that you found your niche!

I think part of it also goes to my second point; since lots of people are qualified for retail jobs, they get a lot of applications, meaning I was competing with a very large pool of people.

I never got confirmation on this, but I am about 95% sure that I was the only person who applied to the Coldfusion job. Compare that to Target, where there was literally a queue of people applying at the terminal in the store.

I’ve been declined for enough jobs to know that you can be declined for the dumbest reasons, or no reason at all, so trying to reason about it is an exercise in futility, but I am pretty sure that a lack of applicants is the reason I got the coldfusion job

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#498

Post by tptacek »

dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #495
tptacek wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before I do that, can you confirm for me what you believe "heritability" to mean?

Heritability: Black kid born to black parents. The blackness is heritable Innate: Albino kid born to black parents ( mutation, etc..) So here Albinism is innate to kid but not inherited. That's a black and white definition ( for the sake of conversation). There can be intermediate states. For example even if the kid's skin is black there can be variation in skin tone, so slight mutation, but still largely inherited.

Heritability is the ratio of genetic variance to phenotypical variance. How heritable do you think the number of fingers on your hand is?

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#499

Post by slt2021 »

brainwipe wrote: post #32

IMO education is still built around Victorian structures and needs to be reworked from examinations downwards. Examinations are an exercise in being good at examinations, not proficiency in the subject. Once you strip that away the you wind back all the structures that feed it. You can see this working at schools designed for the neuro diverse. Those students simply can't sit and listen to a teacher all day, so each…

I agree 100%. With ChatGPT at everyone's disposal with entire humanity knowledge in generative form, we need to completely rethink the concept of teaching and learning.

There are so many opportunities to deliver personalized Ivy League level education in your native language of choice, for essentially pennies/free to everyone around the world on demand

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#500

Post by grogenaut »

naijaboiler wrote: post #491
grogenaut wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is all my opinion and what works for me... sorry if that wasn't explicitly stated at the top

That part was clear. It was when you started opining on “what’s better” that I felt you stepped way way out of your area of expertise. You really have no grounds to say what’s better

I have 100% grounds to say what's been better for me over the 30 or so years of school I've taken, I'm sorry if you're reading more into what I'm saying than what I'm saying.

Just like I'll say that spaced repetition seems like a good theory that I'm having trouble (with adhd) putting into practice esp while taking classes and holding down a job. Or that I liked the approach the class took during lectures by talking with a small peer group, but could see that it didn't work for many shy people and seemed to take a lot of lecture time. Overall they were interesting and I'd try them again.

These are my own observations I am not professing to be an expert in education.

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