Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management • Hacker News Board

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#491

Post by piva00 » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 9:00 AM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #422

pydry wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was trying to say that you can't boil the topic of regulations down to "more" vs "less". It appears that you were incapable of hearing this message and have responded as if I just said "MORE REGULATION! NOW!"

No. It seems you were incapable of understanding what I was saying ... which is MORE IS WORSE. In other words, the only people who think MORE IS WORSE is a meme are people who think the exceptions are the rule. Almost always more regulation doesn't work in complex markets. Incentives are very very difficult to get right ... the exceptions where the regulations work are extremely rare. And for the most part people don…

> Almost always more regulation doesn't work in complex markets. Incentives are very very difficult to get right

As if the simple incentives of a deregulated market (aka: profit above all) do work in complex markets.

That's OP's whole point, you want the right laws, not more or less, sometimes more regulation is needed due to the complexity of an industry, sometimes less is completely fine. That nuance is what's missing, and it's exactly the hard part of the whole system to be balanced.

> the exceptions where the regulations work are extremely rare. And for the most part people don't get them right.

For the most part, companies don't get it right either. Case in point: Boeing self-regulation, USA's finance industry self-regulation pre-2008, etc.

Just let go of the dogma.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#492

Post by piva00 » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 9:26 AM UTC

maxwell wrote: post #155

soco wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an European I fail to see how I could call myself patriot and at the same time distrust my own government - elected by me . Even if I didn't like the government, I'd still go with it because it's representing my country, and I'd also try to change the aspects which I don't like, again because it's my country. Those "actual true patriots" sound to me more like actual true selfish people which only want things happe…

As a European, you almost certainly have better representation than most Americans. We haven't expanded the House of Representatives since 1929. We're approaching a million constituents per rep, an extreme outlier among OECD countries: https://www.amacad.org/ourcommonpurpose/enlarging-the-house/... The reason Americans no longer trust Congress is because the Colonists had better representation per constituent (on pap…

Also the US following UK's FPTP system inevitably creates a 2-party system, you simply cannot have just 2 parties representing all of the political spectrum and needs of a nation of 340 million people, and very diverse people at it, across a vast swath of land.

Even though most Continental Europe elections end up being a race between 2 major coalitions at least there's fluidity in the composition of these coalitions, sometimes the right-wing coalition embraces the centrist parties, or the greens, sometimes it's the left-wing coalition, this fluidity creates a lot more of nuance and compromise in politics rather than choosing Team Blue vs Team Red. FPTP is a dumb election system.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#493

Post by piva00 » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 9:27 AM UTC

carlosjobim wrote: post #281

bojan wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, if you talk to real people within the EU, you'll find that maybe half of them are mostly against the EU. The polling seems to be proving you wrong. Even in the UK the attitude towards the EU seems to be net positive.

I wrote "if you talk to people", which is different from what a poll might say. Yes, it's anecdotal.

I talk to people here in the EU, and most of my anecdotes support the EU, even the ones with reservations regarding it.

So anecdotes don't matter in this discussion.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#494

Post by piva00 » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 9:31 AM UTC

codingcodingboy wrote: post #478

xdennis wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a "free" market why would a Bulgarian be forced to operate only near Bulgaria? As an example, all food in Romania is from the Netherlands or other foreign countries. But you don't see the EU imposing regulations to make foreign food more expensive. Essentially eastern Europe is an exploitation market: everything is manufactured in the west, and when the east has an advantage it's immediately shut down. This is als…

> As an example, all food in Romania is from the Netherlands or other foreign countries. Why?

Probably because Romanian farmers make more money selling their produce outside of Romania and the Netherlands and other countries can produce so much cheap produce that it's cheaper for Romania to import it rather than pay the price Romanian farmers are willing to sell it in the internal market.

I don't see any issue with that, it's a win-win.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#495

Post by sgift » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 9:34 AM UTC

throw10920 wrote: post #473

kerkeslager wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two systems at play when you see a cookie warning: 1. Businesses trying to violate your privacy. 2. A government trying to protect you from said businesses. Either of these entities could avoid the cookie warning, but there are very different reasons why they do not.

> 1. Businesses trying to violate your privacy This is false. The GDPR does not mandate privacy - the GDPR mandates the protection of certain kinds of personal data, much of which (e.g. IP addresses) has legitimate reasons for being collected (e.g. abuse protection). Claiming that every business that shows a cookie warning is trying to violate your privacy is not only objectively false, but extremely intellectually d…

[flagged]

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#496

Post by massysett » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 10:40 AM UTC

Sammi wrote: post #479

massysett wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“brainwashed” Distrust of government, and the limiting of its powers, is an American founding principle. It has resulted in federalism, separation of powers, a Constitution that protects property rights, and a Bill of Rights. This skepticism of government stemmed from the lived experience of the founders. That this founding principle still permeates American thinking and American life is something I would call cultur…

"federalism, separation of powers, a Constitution that protects property rights, and a Bill of Rights." These things exist in the EU. Are you sure you are not brainwashed?

Is distrust of government a founding principle of the EU?

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#497

Post by ttoinou » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 1:01 PM UTC

Sammi wrote: post #480

ttoinou wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU made us all poorer, it hasn't lifted many out of poverty

The data disagrees with you. Eu gdp 2013: 11,516.141 billion euro Eu gdp 2023: 15,907.189 billion euro 39.58% increase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union

Oooh right, money. Numbers in a bank account equals wealth of course, yeah you're right

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#498

Post by throw10920 » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 1:46 PM UTC

sgift wrote: post #495

throw10920 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Businesses trying to violate your privacy This is false. The GDPR does not mandate privacy - the GDPR mandates the protection of certain kinds of personal data, much of which (e.g. IP addresses) has legitimate reasons for being collected (e.g. abuse protection). Claiming that every business that shows a cookie warning is trying to violate your privacy is not only objectively false, but extremely intellectually d…

[flagged]

I was referring to normal GDPR banners, not cookie banners. I didn't say anything about cookie banners in my comment. I'm not sure there's even much of a distinction, and my point holds anyway, because their are legitimate uses of cookies that non-privacy-violating businesses use.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#499

Post by ltbarcly3 » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 1:53 PM UTC

mst wrote: post #394

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article does not just explain the reality of doing business. I doubt you actually read it. There is an entire paragraph defending the connector situation and justifying inaction on the incompatibility of outlets. Its not saying “this is the reality, do better at accepting it”, it is making policy justification arguments. It is perfectly valid to point out that those arguments are stupid. I could use your weird, s…

It's explaining the motivation behind the policy choices. You don't have to agree with the motivation or the choices for this to be helpful. Being able to better predict both implementation of current policies and what policy choices are likely to be made going forwards is useful and the author's description of the world view driving them seems to me to be accurate. > I doubt you actually read it. Saying this in a co…

You are the one who is not really understanding here. The article again and again wonders why Americans are so aggressively resistant to the EU policies, instead of just trying to optimize within them. This is just a cultural difference and you aren't going to talk Americans out of having an American culture. Once, a long time ago, when I was in Sweden a friend of a friend said that "The government told us we shouldn't have cars so I sold my car" and I laughed very hard, then realized none of the Swedish people were laughing. From an American point of view, saying that could only have been a dry irony, and could never have been meant as a serious statement by anyone, even the people who would most support not owning a car. That level of trust in government is wildly unamerican and could never be expressed in that way by anyone and understood to be a serious statement by other americans. Even a Canadian wouldn't be able to say something like "I did this because the government advised us to do it" without then giving a culturally valid reason and not be considered very odd. In fact, this under states this cultural difference, if I said to basically any American "the government said to do X, so I'm not going to do it" they would immediately recognize and more or less agree with the general sentiment, even if they thought there were other, actually valid reasons to still do X.

I think the behavior of Americans confuses you because you have grown up in a European monoculture (yes you have seen lots of different costumes and heard lots of languages, but western europe is largely all the same in this respect) and lack perspective on actual differences in how different cultures around the world relate to authority.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#500

Post by piva00 » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 2:44 PM UTC

buzzert wrote: post #485

Sammi wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"federalism, separation of powers, a Constitution that protects property rights, and a Bill of Rights." These things exist in the EU. Are you sure you are not brainwashed?

The US Constitution maintains that rights defined in the Bill of Rights pre-exist government ("inalienable"). The EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights defines rights granted to the people by the government. This is a subtle, but important difference.

I still can't reconcile the fact that "Life" is one of those inalienable rights while the US still has capital punishment (and that part of the population even celebrates having it).