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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#491

Post by Psychoshy_bc1q »

onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #410
diffeomorphism wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your opinion on magnetic usb c adapters? For about 10€ you get 140W charging and 40Gbps. Compared to magsafe it is not recessed (though that has not been an issue in my experience), but on the plus side it also does data, video and is universal . Currently using the same type of adapter for my laptop, phone and tablet with the ends on various chargers and docking stations.

I had a number of them from two or three different brands. They had tendency to cause sparking and I lost at least one phone due to it. The phone was fine but it lost ability to be charged through the USB port. And because it did not have wireless charging, when the battery ran out it became an expensive brick.

can't it be repaired?

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#492

Post by hulitu »

readams wrote: post #370
userbinator wrote: post #154

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

One issue with USB-C is that dust gets packed into the female side. I've found it can be in there so tight that even after attempting to clean it, the dust remains. But going in with a sewing needle, rubbing alcohol, and really scraping you can fix the port.

I wouldn't do this on phones. Alcohol and the needle are conductive materials.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#493

Post by hulitu »

epigramx wrote: post #243
userbinator wrote: post #154

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

they should make it big as A, and reversible as C, why do I have to think of solutions so obvious?

And this will help also with power delivery. As an EE, putting 100W in such a small connector gives me shivers.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#494

Post by bdavbdav »

chungy wrote: post #5

I don't even have any devices that use USB-C. Not a single one. The only USB-C cables I have are for charging phones.

Unless everything is fairly old, that must take some doing. Everything on my desk is USB C. Both keyboards, Logitech mouse, phone, dev kits / boards, both work and personal laptops (PD charging, personal only uses USB C). I’m getting used to the every cable is a double ended USB C life.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#495

Post by Roark66 »

lxgr wrote: post #450
Roark66 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There is no way a significantly smaller connector with way more pins can be as robust as a large one with less pins. It is 100% horseshit. My anecdote to add, but this time comparing USB-c power delivery with the lowly ~8mm barrel jack. I recently got a laptop shipped to me by a remote client to use to connect to their network. I pull it out of the box set it up and I notice the usb c power cable has the sli…

> And if it didn't work I could get another barrel jack from an electronic parts store the same day, chop off the old one and solder the new one on. Good luck doing that with usb-c. Most consumers can't solder, and I wouldn't even know where to find an electronic parts store. I can buy a (probably bad, but better than nothing in a pinch) USB-C cable at a convenience store on almost every street corner. I'm more than…

>Most consumers can't solder, and I wouldn't even know where to find an electronic parts store. I can buy a (probably bad, but better than nothing in a pinch) USB-C

But these PSUs haven't got any receptacle you can plug a replacement USB-c cable. On the brick side the cable goes into the brick. That's it.

Fair point about soldering and general rarity of electronic parts stores. If things remained as repairable as they were let's say 30 years ago you wouldn't need to know how to solder, but you would have an electronics store within a short driving distance where they'd solder the barrel jack on for you.

A common argument is, but everything is miniaturised now, to which I say, so what? Microscopes and bga rework equipment has been available for even hobbyist for quite some time.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#496

Post by JohnFen »

userbinator wrote: post #154

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

This is my experience as well. I have had substantially more problems with USB C connectors failing than with any of the prior USB types.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#497

Post by JohnFen »

rightbyte wrote: post #304
rezonant wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VGA connectors were incredibly irritating to deal with, especially since so many of them were equipped with smooth screwing bolts with very little area to spin them with your fingers. I for one don't miss this.

If you wanted to have quick insert connection you could just not tighten the screws. I almost never tightened the screws, but it was good on monitors which were pivoting. I am writing this on a screen where the HDMI connector pops out if a even touch it.

Honestly, I have never tightened those screws.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#498

Post by JohnFen »

lxgr wrote: post #424
mavamaarten wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experiences differ. I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use. I'm glad my current phone has wireless charging, not because of its convenience but because that way I don't wear out the USB-C port. USB-A is so simple, two holes and some leaf springs make for a satisfying clunk that doesn't wear out so quickly.

> I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use. I used to think the same thing, until I looked into how the USB-C plug actually operates: The movable spring parts are all in the cable, so if there's anything wearing out, it's usually that. Clean the plug/port (lint collecting in the back of the port prevents a proper connection and makes the haptic feedback feel of…

> so if there's anything wearing out, it's usually that.

And yet, very nearly all of the USB-C connector breakage that I've experienced has been the socket-side, not on the cable.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#499

Post by JohnFen »

kayfox wrote: post #208
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think these numbers are fabricated horseshit, drafted by some engineer behind a desk running endless simulations. The USB industrial complex made the same claims with micro-USB vs mini-USB; and are now doing it again with Type-C. My empirical evidence: I've now had to replace two laptop motherboards due to a (mechanically) failed USB-C port. Guess what I haven't had to do in 25 years? Replace a failed US…

The connector lifetimes are tested by some manufacturers. When I was working on USB (electrical) testing at Microsoft we had test jigs for testing connectors to failure and I can vouch for Microsoft's connectors having lifetimes exceeding 25,000 insertions. We would also test how many miles a mouse would travel before the glides would wear out.

Then the tests must be faulty. At least, they don't reflect the real-world experience of me and my friends. USB-C has a much higher failure rate for us.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#500

Post by JohnFen »

lxgr wrote: post #448
holoduke wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can a large usb A port be weaker than a tiny usb c port? If you attach a keyboard and throw it out of the window the usb A port will remain ok whereas the usb c port instantly gets damaged.

> How can a large usb A port be weaker than a tiny usb c port? Because for USB-A, the part that wears down is in the port, while for USB-C it's in the plug. > If you attach a keyboard and throw it out of the window the usb A port will remain ok whereas the usb c port instantly gets damaged. Have you tried that yourself, a statistically significant number of times?

> Because for USB-A, the part that wears down is in the port, while for USB-C it's in the plug.

I've had a number of USB-C ports break, I've never has a USB-A port break.

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