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Why are lithium prices collapsing?

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Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#491

Post by belter »

akira2501 wrote: post #327
elif wrote: post #109

Because I see so much "conflict metals" discussion when lithium is discussed, I would like to contribute that less than 3% of global lithium production takes place on small artisanal mines, in which place human rights abuse may occur. Over 85% of lithium is produced by just 2 international corporations with large scale mines complying with multiple international regulation requirements.

> Over 85% of lithium is produced by just 2 international corporations If I search google for this string, your post is the only one that comes up. How did you arrive at this figure? In the history of industry, when has it ever been a positive indication that only two players control the majority of the supply? Do these companies directly own the mines or are there partnerships and subsidiaries involved? What countri…

These are the supposedly 14 Largest Lithium Producers.

I added 2022 Revenue for the top three:

1. Albemarle Corporation - Australia (USD $7.32 Billion)

2. Jiangxi Ganfeng Lithium - China ( USD $5.8 Billion )

3. Tianqi Lithium - China - ( USD $3.8 Billion )

4. Mineral Resources Limited - USA

5. Sociedad Química y Minera de Chile S.A. - Chile

6. Sichuan Yahua Industrial Group - China

7. Livent Corporation - USA

8. Lithium Americas Corp - USA

9. Pilbara Minerals - Australia

10. Allkem - Australia

11. Baconara Lithium - Mexico

12. Savannah Resources - UK

13. Piedmont Lithium Inc - USA

14. Grupo Mota - Portugal

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#492

Post by JackMorgan »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #208
CydeWeys wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas stoves matter as far as indoor air quality and giving people asthma/allergies goes.

Do you have a source for gas stoves giving people allergies?

Perhaps the parent misspoke, but here are several for asthma

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10473289.1992.10...

https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/42/6/1724/737113

https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/20/1/75

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#493

Post by sharemywin »

cashsterling wrote: post #447
elif wrote: post #109

Because I see so much "conflict metals" discussion when lithium is discussed, I would like to contribute that less than 3% of global lithium production takes place on small artisanal mines, in which place human rights abuse may occur. Over 85% of lithium is produced by just 2 international corporations with large scale mines complying with multiple international regulation requirements.

International regulations are often very lax and not well enforced in a lot of mining operations in the developing world. We only know what people tell us or show us (unless you are fortunate to be able to boots on the ground investigation yourself). Companies and profitting parties in the lithium supply chain want us to believe that mining is ecologically sound and not abusing people. The first hand accounts and inv…

"from what I've read it appears to me that is much worse than fracking in many operations around the world."

is that taking co2 into account?

also doesn't fracking cause earth quakes?

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#494

Post by comte7092 »

peterfirefly wrote: post #488
comte7092 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I won't propose any exact criteria, given that this is HN and I am in no mood for nitpicking games, which usually follow after a demand for something exact. I understand that, you were the one who dismissed GDP per capita as an objective measurement of economic development. The point I was making that the OECD exists to espouse a particular model of global economic organization and development, which is politically…

Some countries are known for falsifying statistics -- Argentina and China, for example. Chile is not. That means that if the official GDP/capita of Chile and Argentina are about the same, the real ones must be very different. (And they aren't the same. Chile's is a lot higher at the moment.)

It was an example, stop getting bogged down in Argentina and look at Uruguay if you have an issue with their stats.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#495

Post by Miraste »

Maursault wrote: post #480
nl wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing like nuclear. I know the facts about nuclear and are vehemently opposed to it for environmental risk reasons.

If nuclear power were profitable, no amount of vehement opposition due to environmental risk could stop it. There'd be nuclear power plants everywhere. Fortunately for your vehement opposition, considering all costs. nuclear power has always been the single most expensive way to generate electricity, has never been profitable, and never will be, even if it wasn't regulated. Investors can't be found unless a governmen…

>never will be

I don't believe this is inherently true. Theoretical designs exist that solve a lot of nuclear power's problems: this issue is that it got caught in a death spiral due to Chernobyl. That ended investment and R&D, so nuclear power plants didn't improve while other sources of energy did, so they got even less investment and R&D.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#496

Post by croutonwagon »

elbigbad wrote: post #486
croutonwagon wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 3 really. Albermarle - a Aussie company does about 1/3 of the worlds lithium mining. SQM - a company out of Chile. China - does the rest. Each is responsible for ~ 1/3 of the worlds lithium production. Although SQM is on the downfall due to the referendum recently. And China is on the rise as companies like BYD are trying to really take over much of the larger lithium battery market, especially with EV cars…

Given this split at face value, then the inference that 85% of lithium is in compliance with international regulations is false. It would be at most 67%, and probably more like 33% in compliance actually.

Well my comment is regarding who is doing the mining and more importantly where it’s being sourced.

Some have more regulations than others.

Chile has been looking to socialize its mining ops. So the international interests in their sources has waned a bit.

China does it cheaper but with far less concern about safety, environmental friendliness etc.

Overall these companies account for the lions share of raw lithium materials in the world. But what specific percentage and who is buying from who are totally different topics. For example why would a company like BYD look outside of China for lithium for its batteries?

BYD is a big supplier of batteries for companies like Dell, Lenovo and others. And they make car batteries for EVs in China and SE Asia.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#498

Post by uoaei »

refurb wrote: post #459
uoaei wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal system doesn't "believe" anything. Unless you are a court of law, you aren't bound by the rules governing one.

The legal system "presumes" things. Based on your comment, the legal presumptions of innocence is "absurd".

I recommend you study up on the notion of "proceduralism".

Codified systems are mutually exclusive with any amount of "agency". Agency is required for beliefs to exist.

Ipso facto blah blah blah you're just gonna keep believing some self-serving bullshit so whatever.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#499

Post by dang »

api wrote: post #111

The space is saturated with anti-EV FUD.

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35762026 and marked it off topic.

Incidentally, bogus generalizations about HN are one of the lowest-quality forms of this. Please avoid that.

The community is divided on most topics, especially the divisive ones—this is neither surprising nor interesting, and perceptions about what's "saturated" are driven by people's passions on $topic.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#500

Post by dang »

aintgonnatakeit wrote: post #113
api wrote: post #111

The space is saturated with anti-EV FUD.

Same thing happens with the gas stove threads. I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons.

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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