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EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

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Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#491
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then why haven't they? I get zero iMessage spam.

I don't know, I don't get any SMS spam either. Maybe we are not that interesting? But I do get a spam call from time to time.

I'll add some anechdata: I get frequent text spam (about 1/day at the peak, it's slowed a lot recently). I've gotten maybe 5 spam iMessage messages during the entire lifetime of my phone.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IOS 9 or 10 (been a while) turned off SMS fallback when the user upgraded to that version. People kept calling and complaining texting no longer worked, and it was just that they could only text IPhones. That was 100% a dark pattern / monopoly practice with no reason but to ensure market share.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't seem accurate. I've been using iOS since ~2015 and I don't recall ever having lost the ability to send or receive SMS messages.

If you left iMessage on when you upgraded from iOS to an Android device, everyone who had an iPhone would still be attempting to send you iMessages and you'd never get them on your Android phone.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#493
It's the same every time. When Apple gets called out for monopolistic anti-consumer behaviour, an army shows up to defend Apple with a bunch of FUD.

No, it won't hurt you or your grandma that you can choose app store, choose browser engine, choose payment provider, that you can charge with usb c, etc., and in this case that non-apple users won't be mocked with different colored bubbles and other limitations. Every concern is either blown out of proportions or can easily be solved with the slightest bit of willpower.

Choice leads to better competition and thus better products whereas lock-in leads to complacency and stagnancy.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IOS 9 or 10 (been a while) turned off SMS fallback when the user upgraded to that version. People kept calling and complaining texting no longer worked, and it was just that they could only text IPhones. That was 100% a dark pattern / monopoly practice with no reason but to ensure market share.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't seem accurate. I've been using iOS since ~2015 and I don't recall ever having lost the ability to send or receive SMS messages.

I had 25 IPhones all turn off the SMS fallback on the upgrade, and found Apple documentation for such. It was an intentional act, and happened over and over.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#495
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgot email. Even better, integrate messages with my email client and then they would all be in one place. Can't wait. Don't care how they are sent, just want to know if I write something to someone it gets there. Don't want random strangers to be able to write to me without my consent. That's my spec for the ideal setup.

Twenty two minutes ago you cared about groups, pictures and emojis. Email clients don't do emojis well or groups well, SMS doesn't do any of them, and IIRC Blackberry did everything in one program 15 years ago. Downvoted because this is the comment equivalent of the manager walking into a technical discussion of how something should work and demanding "just make it work" and leaving. Or commenting on a war topic "I j…

Email does sort of support groups, they are just reply all + consent to be receiving the group messages. I put emoji in emails, I don't understand what the problem is there?

Anyway, maybe I wasn't being precise enough, more precisely I meant Unicode, anything that can send Unicode with file attachments works for me which is every message service already. All the other extra stuff apple and google do with custom emoji and other things like that is irrelevant to me and I would happily give it up to have all written communication in one client with one red dot showing unread messages and one list of contacts.

WRT to privacy concerns, maybe my dream client lets me prioritise which services I prefer and it drops down to the lowest common denominator. So I could prefer Matrix > Signal > Telegram > iMessage > WhatsApp > Email > (the google one?) > Facebook Messenger for starting new chats or groups. I don't see what else you can do as some people can only be contacted on Facebook messenger; either you stick to your principals and your kids don't go to football club or you suck it up and use Facebook for that chat?

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#496
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IOS 9 or 10 (been a while) turned off SMS fallback when the user upgraded to that version. People kept calling and complaining texting no longer worked, and it was just that they could only text IPhones. That was 100% a dark pattern / monopoly practice with no reason but to ensure market share.

What do you mean? My iPhone often falls back to SMS, even when the other party has an iPhone in a poor reception area.

I saw, with my own eyes, an IPhone upgrade to a new major IOS version and the SMS fallback setting turn off. The change may have been walked back, but I saw it myself, and had to fix it on dozens of phones.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#497
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the required reading so you don't have to. This is the law passed: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0338... -> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TC1-COD-2021-0... Guess what, on page 10 the text says: > With respect to charging by means other than wired charging, divergent solutions could be developed in the future, which could have negative impacts on interoperability, on con…

> Hotels and many other places have started offering USB A and USB C ports. I think we're close to the point (5-10 years away?) where you could go to the US from Europe with just a laptop, for 2 weeks, and you'd be able to charge it just by using USB C ports available in restaurants, hotels, bars, offices, etc. Yeah, but I don't think there are USB C razors yet. > On top of that, for wall outlets the EU is mostly sta…

> Yeah, but I don't think there are USB C razors yet.

Give it a few years :-) I have a hair clipper that uses micro-USB.

> France and Germany have different outlets (although there are plugs that work in both), and as far as I can tell, Italy has a completely different outlet from either of them.

See this:

https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/EuropePlugsSockets.html

In continental Europe in practice you only care about 2 standards: the German one and the French one. Those cover something like 45 out of 47 countries in Europe.

On top of that, the narrow connector actually works in all of continental Europe and for the big one, almost everything sold since at least 1 decade works with both the German and French standards.

Sucks to be Italy or Switzerland, I guess :-)

> And the UK never stopped using their own system.

The UK is still doing its own thing with many things, we don't talk about them anymore...

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way appositives work is that they qualify the preceding subject. Here you have two appositives so you can read "where applicable" as qualifying "including end-to-end encryption" or "the level of security." If "where applicable" is qualifying "the level of security" the staement reads "the level of security, where applicable, that the gatekeeper provides to its own end users shall be preserved accross the interope…

Civil law countries don't like textualism. The spirit/intent of the law can often trump a literal interpretation of the text, so all this grammatical arguing is moot.

Even worse.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of market economies is to let people vote with their resources. The alternative of having people vote for a representative body that regulates how they transact is far worse. Best case you get a almost as good outcome. Worst case is 49.9% of people suffer horribly under state enforced "social good".

> Best case you get a almost as good outcome Ah, so you have never heard of market failure, market manipulation, cartels, negative externalities, qash trading, self dealing, insider trading, wage supression agreements, and dozens of others? You do realise that without government to keep fraud and manipulation in check 'free market' collapses into anarchy in one week?

Of your list, the party that comes to mind as a salient example most often is the state.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#500

It's the same every time. When Apple gets called out for monopolistic anti-consumer behaviour, an army shows up to defend Apple with a bunch of FUD. No, it won't hurt you or your grandma that you can choose app store, choose browser engine, choose payment provider, that you can charge with usb c, etc., and in this case that non-apple users won't be mocked with different colored bubbles and other limitations. Every co…

We can’t have choice if bodies like the EU (led by appointed, not elected, politicians) decide on technical standards.

It’s egregious that the EU will force a lowest-common-denominator implementation of messaging on independent private companies who, up to this point, have all been innovating in this space.

The EU desperately wants to compromise end to end encryption, so we KNOW that that the EU is not acting in the public interest when it comes to legislating messaging services.

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