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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#491

Post by karmelapple »

olivermuty wrote: post #418
karmelapple wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in a not-too-rural city in the Midwest of about 40,000 at the time, and we still didn’t have school busing for anyone in the city. It was only for rural folks. I was forced to get my drivers’ license at 16 to drive 10 min to school because the alternative was walking 1.2 hours every morning one way ti get to school… meaning leaving the house at around 6:00am. The city had no city bus, so there was zero public…

Bike not an option?

A little story to give you an idea:

I rode a bike on our quiet neighborhood streets when I was about 12. I was returning a rented video game back to the store. I generally stayed to the side of the main lane, where cars are typically parked on the street. However, in one area, cars were parked, so I had to go around them.

In spite of me going slowly, and not making any kind of darting move - I gradually moved over and looked over my shoulder for many seconds before I came towards the parked cars - someone behind me yelled a curse word at me as they passed me and flipped me off.

I had the sheer audacity of riding a bike on a street.

# # #

Sidewalks are not really intended for riding bikes, but that was the only place I felt somewhat safe riding them, other than the dedicated walking and bike paths that stretched around the outside of our city and did not get to within half a mile of my high school.

And riding a bike as a 16 year old from December 1 - March 15 through likely multiple inches of snow on the ground, and certainly on icy conditions? No way. The big puffy tires that are somewhat popular today in winter were something I hadn't even heard of in the 1990s.

Edit: and as other commenters mentioned, no bike lanes. Bike lanes on a road in that city were not present until 2012, many years after I was in high school, and even now are being questioned by the mayor of the city: https://www.kfyrtv.com/2022/05/30/safe-biking-routes-bismarc...

So... no, it was not an option. If I had suggested it, my parents, friends, classmates, and teachers would likely all have tried to talk me out of it.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#492

Post by karmelapple »

spicyusername wrote: post #457
olivermuty wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bike not an option?

Most parts of the U.S. are not well designed for bikes or pedestrians, only cars. Also, many schools in the U.S. have really large districts, so some students live really far from the school. In many places this would mean children would be required to bike on 55mph+ 5-lane roads with no shoulder and no bike lane for 5-20+ miles. Nearly all public schools in the U.S. provide a free bus system for all students for thi…

That was the weird part about our city: they simply did not offer it.

Literally every family was expected to have a car, and get their child to school in a car... or somehow have them walk, but apparently not too far, since temperatures would routinely dip to single digits Fahrenheit throughout the winter months.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#493

Post by karmelapple »

gabereiser wrote: post #459
spicyusername wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most parts of the U.S. are not well designed for bikes or pedestrians, only cars. Also, many schools in the U.S. have really large districts, so some students live really far from the school. In many places this would mean children would be required to bike on 55mph+ 5-lane roads with no shoulder and no bike lane for 5-20+ miles. Nearly all public schools in the U.S. provide a free bus system for all students for thi…

This was me in elementary school. I went to a private school briefly where there wasn’t a bus and my mother had to work so I had to bike 20 miles to school through rush hour traffic at 11 years old.

Yikes! Thank goodness you got through it, and hopefully they've started offering buses or there are bike lanes in your city.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#494

Post by temporarara »

hintymad wrote: post #488
temporarara wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that there are universities that strongly favor athletes feels so absurd to me. In my country you could be a world class athlete and it gives you exactly zero extra points when applying to any university here. Academic success and the possible entry exams are the only things that are considered. All "extra curricular activities" are completely ignored, the mindset being that if they truly are relevant they h…

Because sports is a hugely profitable business for universities. And it is profitable precisely because American people just are so into sports. So it's a virtuous or vicious cycle, depending on how you look at it. My view is actually in the middle: admit national talent, but ignore anyone below that level. This is just how sports works. No one knows who was the 100th place in Tour de France, even though that person…

I still think universities should not be into profiting from sports. It's so weird that they are combined in some countries. After all being even exceptionally good at sports does not in any way imply that you belong into university level education in the first place. Universities should be about higher education and research.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#495

Post by Riseed »

geraldwhen wrote: post #440
Riseed wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While students need somewhere to sleep and eat, the cost of doing so on campus are much higher than anywhere else (in my limited experience). For example, the cost of on-campus room and board my junior year was 4x the cost of my off-campus room and board the following year. Some schools don't allow for off-campus housing for some or all students, or still require commuters to purchase a meal plan. So perhaps while it…

Non big city schools aren’t a 4x multiple or even 2x. And most schools aren’t in New England. And most schools don’t require dorming, especially for all 3/4 years. The average student loan debt for a graduating undergrad is 23k. If college costs were truly 100k that just wouldn’t be the case. Edit: median

Obviously I didn't go to most schools. But none I attended were in a big city, and none were in New England, so it's not just a "big city" or "New England" problem. Regardless, I have never personally seen an example of on-campus room and board being > The [median] student loan debt for a graduating undergrad is 23k. If college costs were truly 100k that just wouldn’t be the case.

I fail to see how that necessarily follows because:

- many students and families save for college, so there's a cash downpayment

- many students work to cover part of college costs

- many families work to cover part of college costs

But this seems an unproductive rabbit trail from the issue of letting kids get their sleep.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#496

Post by flandish »

astrange wrote: post #489
flandish wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pay for childcare > wages are high Pay for…. That’s your clue. Prices are expensive because the owning class is squeezing every dime they can get. You know… bog standard capitalism…

I don't think the capitalist class controls the price of childcare services?

You neglect to consider for profit day care. Profit desires dictate price. Labor is paid as little as possible, by an owner…

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#497

Post by taco2081 »

zoomablemind wrote: post #369
gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

Quoting from the article: "...A delayed school start could also mean adults with inflexible work schedules are late for work." In my view, the whole school system largely appears to be a way to safely contain our kids, while we're working hard in the offices or elsewhere. So traditional inflexibility of office working arrangements (opening times often tied to other points of economy, like store or market hours) refle…

It's exactly this, most office jobs, whether we like it or not, are 9-5. Parents need to be around to see their kids to the bus or in many cases drop them off themselves.

I'm not surprised that the top commment of an HN thread is blaming sports though...

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