What not to write on your security clearance form (1988) • Hacker News Board

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#491

Post by euroderf » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 7:17 AM UTC

red-iron-pine wrote: post #146

pedrovhb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the "are you a terrorist" section of the U.S. visa application is hilarious. I was honestly laughing out loud at some of the questions, imagining a sincere terrorist having their plan foiled by their strict moral code which requires them to lay out in detail their plan to topple the government :)

It's mostly so that someone can't say "well you never asked!" -- okay fine we'll ask from now on. Additionally it creates a condition of jeopardy, because now you've made an official statement, and if it's false you're now potentially chargeable for perjury or making false official statements. So if you're a super-slick spy type and they can't pin something on you conclusively, but are sure you're up to something (in…

Yup. Thus the question about "have you committed war crimes". They added that one after having trouble deporting a one-time concentration camp guard.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#492

Post by carlmr » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 7:38 AM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #483

wkat4242 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the US is so full on about marijuana. I've heard this is a major thing in federalinterviews but other much more scary drugs are not. What's the hangup with this particular drug that's actually legal in many states? Ps: I've been asked that question too in less formal settings and I always truthfully say no which does raise some eyebrows as I'm Dutch :) But I've really never done it. Not countin…

A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. Having a gun and being a pot user is a felony with 10+ years in jail. It's one of the most serious non-violent offenses for mere personal use possession on the books. It's also very easy to detect because pot stays in your system longer than about any other drug and the penalty for pot use by non-firearm owners is so weak and unenforced that people often fo…

>it is a very severe crime for the ~40% of US that owns arms.

Only if you carry them with you, right?

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#493

Post by simonjgreen » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 7:40 AM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #483

wkat4242 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the US is so full on about marijuana. I've heard this is a major thing in federalinterviews but other much more scary drugs are not. What's the hangup with this particular drug that's actually legal in many states? Ps: I've been asked that question too in less formal settings and I always truthfully say no which does raise some eyebrows as I'm Dutch :) But I've really never done it. Not countin…

A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. Having a gun and being a pot user is a felony with 10+ years in jail. It's one of the most serious non-violent offenses for mere personal use possession on the books. It's also very easy to detect because pot stays in your system longer than about any other drug and the penalty for pot use by non-firearm owners is so weak and unenforced that people often fo…

This doesn't really answer the question though. "Why" is it looked on in this way?

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#494

Post by notch656c » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 7:46 AM UTC

simonjgreen wrote: post #493

notch656c wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. Having a gun and being a pot user is a felony with 10+ years in jail. It's one of the most serious non-violent offenses for mere personal use possession on the books. It's also very easy to detect because pot stays in your system longer than about any other drug and the penalty for pot use by non-firearm owners is so weak and unenforced that people often fo…

This doesn't really answer the question though. "Why" is it looked on in this way?

I haven't been in a federal interview, but I would say it gets more focus merely because it is the most popular of the illegal drugs by a landslide.

The government has to remind you it's illegal because well "everybody" does it and it really doesn't seem like it actually is and it sure as hell doesn't feel like you're doing something wrong or harmful. So somebody has to tell you that this drug is really bad because you'll go to jail for it for a long time.

The main reason pot is bad is because it will get you a jail sentence. The main reason you'll get a jail sentence is because it's bad. Hope that clears it up.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#495

Post by notch656c » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 7:50 AM UTC

carlmr wrote: post #492

notch656c wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. Having a gun and being a pot user is a felony with 10+ years in jail. It's one of the most serious non-violent offenses for mere personal use possession on the books. It's also very easy to detect because pot stays in your system longer than about any other drug and the penalty for pot use by non-firearm owners is so weak and unenforced that people often fo…

>it is a very severe crime for the ~40% of US that owns arms. Only if you carry them with you, right?

No. A single speck of pot + just being someone that owns guns at all is 10 years in jail. Look up "constructive possession."

AFAIK it's the feds position that even merely having a medical marijuana card (which doesn't mean you actually have ever even bought/consumed weed) and owning a gun makes you a felon.

Note: not a lawyer, not legal advice.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#496

Post by henrikschroder » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 8:33 AM UTC

simonjgreen wrote: post #493

notch656c wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. Having a gun and being a pot user is a felony with 10+ years in jail. It's one of the most serious non-violent offenses for mere personal use possession on the books. It's also very easy to detect because pot stays in your system longer than about any other drug and the penalty for pot use by non-firearm owners is so weak and unenforced that people often fo…

This doesn't really answer the question though. "Why" is it looked on in this way?

This smells like a "war on drugs" thing where it's illegal because it's extremely convenient for law enforcement that this combo is illegal.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#497

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 8:36 AM UTC

notch656c wrote: post #483

wkat4242 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the US is so full on about marijuana. I've heard this is a major thing in federalinterviews but other much more scary drugs are not. What's the hangup with this particular drug that's actually legal in many states? Ps: I've been asked that question too in less formal settings and I always truthfully say no which does raise some eyebrows as I'm Dutch :) But I've really never done it. Not countin…

A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. Having a gun and being a pot user is a felony with 10+ years in jail. It's one of the most serious non-violent offenses for mere personal use possession on the books. It's also very easy to detect because pot stays in your system longer than about any other drug and the penalty for pot use by non-firearm owners is so weak and unenforced that people often fo…

> A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun.

The vast majority do not; there are 137,000 that are authorized to carry a gun and/or make arrests, out of 2.85 million non-military federal employees.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#498

Post by notch656c » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 8:44 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #497

notch656c wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. Having a gun and being a pot user is a felony with 10+ years in jail. It's one of the most serious non-violent offenses for mere personal use possession on the books. It's also very easy to detect because pot stays in your system longer than about any other drug and the penalty for pot use by non-firearm owners is so weak and unenforced that people often fo…

> A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. The vast majority do not; there are 137,000 that are authorized to carry a gun and/or make arrests, out of 2.85 million non-military federal employees.

By my reckoning the majority of clearances are DOD active or reserve/guard [0]. That alone pushing it to 50+% of the people need to be allowed to have guns even if they only shoot a rifle once during basic and then are supposed to be able to figure it out if shit hits the fan. Now consider 3 letter agencies etc.

I feel very confident saying being qualified to use a gun is essential to the majority of those with an active clearance, and thus highly relevant to the drugs question part of the clearance.

[0] https://news.clearancejobs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Se...

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#499

Post by chiggsy » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:32 AM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #390

quocanh wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately. What we call honesty is actually two different things: truthfulness and openness. Americans are probably truthful and not open.

Like Canadians are polite but not friendly

That's right.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#500

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 9:38 AM UTC

carlmr wrote: post #492

notch656c wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great deal of government positions involve carrying a gun. Having a gun and being a pot user is a felony with 10+ years in jail. It's one of the most serious non-violent offenses for mere personal use possession on the books. It's also very easy to detect because pot stays in your system longer than about any other drug and the penalty for pot use by non-firearm owners is so weak and unenforced that people often fo…

>it is a very severe crime for the ~40% of US that owns arms. Only if you carry them with you, right?

No, any illegal use or addiction to a wide array of drugs makes it a crime for you to own, possess, buy, sell, transport, etc., a firearm, and separately a crime for anyone to knowingly sell or transfer one to you. Marijuana is included, and because it is a Federal Schedule I narcotic, all use is, by definition, illegal use, even state-permitted medical use (and even though there is a federal policy against direct enforcement of the federal prohibition of marijuana against state legal use, this policy does not extend to the criminal firearms exclusion tied to it.)

The quasi-legality of state-permitted and federally-prohibited-without-direct-enforcement is kind of an awful trap, and that’s even before you consider the risks if the federal enforcement pause – which doesn’t change the criminal law and thus would not raise ex post facto concerns for enforcement against acts that occurred during (or before, if the statute of limitations allows) the pause – were to be lifted.