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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#491

Post by mynameisvlad »

mdp2021 wrote: post #483
mynameisvlad wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 240V charger, as parent commenter said, more than makes up for whatever losses are inherent in heating the car and battery. I have an uncovered space and it’s fine . Yeah, the battery sucks in the cold, and it takes longer to charge, but realistically it’s not like you need to use your car 24/7. Leaving it for a few hours overnight charges it to full, and you can schedule defrosting or do it from the app so the car…

> it’s not like you need But you need it anytime you need it - some rank reliability very highly, at "requirement" level. > from the app And this already is a loud warning bell.

Do you use your car 24/7? No, you don’t. Nobody does. And if you did, there are charging systems outside of home charging.

Did you miss scheduled defrosting, where the car does it automatically so it’s ready in the morning? Does your car even have the ability to do that without you in the car? I didn’t think so.

Be realistic about what is a pain and what isn’t. None of your rebuttals are much of anything except “woe is me I have to take out an app to do something I couldn’t even dream of doing on my car and that’s scary”.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#492

Post by ashwagary »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #325
pmontra wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everybody has a garage. Cities are full of parked cars in front of residential buildings. It did park my car in a street when I was living in a city. By 2035 those streets must be refitted with chargers, one per parking slot and somehow replace the energy distributed as gasoline and diesel with electrical energy. If that doesn't happen people will have to leave their car at a charging station for far more time th…

I don't totally agree with the magnitude of how much more work needs to be done- we don't have one gas pump per ICE car, and electric cars don't need to be charged every day. It's fair to say that people hogging chargers even when they're done charging is a problem, there's a public charger on my street that is near 100% utilization. However this seems pretty solvable- companies can just charge per minute as long as…

>It's fair to say that people hogging chargers even when they're done charging is a problem, there's a public charger on my street that is near 100% utilization.

Makes sense to charge a penalty every minute a charger is connected but not drawing power (full battery).

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#493

Post by xyzelement »

javajosh wrote: post #486
xyzelement wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: moved to the burbs after 40 years of city life (Europe and NYC) and I absolutely love it. Cars work absolutely great and with the decreased need to be physically in the office, suburban life is better and more convenient than ever. I feel like every post that shits on the suburbs should include how many kids do you have, for transparency. No family or kids, of course the city is better for you .

Well, you've got to do the experiment. Move to a major European city center, with kids, without a car, and see how you like it. I tried this in Berlin, and it was quite good! Getting around on the U-Bahn with kids is so nice . You get to hang out with your kids as you travel! Having a free, walkable Kita (daycare/school) is incredible. Being able to walk to useful things like groceries, or a coffee shop, was great. A…

I'm the person you're replying to. My original plan was to raise kids in Manhattan. Luckily my wife talked me out of it and we moved to the suburbs.

Stories like yours are great but unsaid are things like: do your kids have a back yard to play in? How fresh is the air? Do they get to watch dad take care of a house and yard so they learn skills like that? Are they dodging shit on the street as they walk to school ( always was the case in NYC but extra bad now). Are their neighbors families with minimum two kids, or are they a much less family friendly demographic? Etc.

I used to not think about these things until I experienced the better version of these things in the burbs. The self-selection of neighbors who made the move to a family friendly location alone is a game changer

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#494

Post by xxpor »

jaclaz wrote: post #418
murderfs wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same amperage, it's exactly twice as good, but if you're going to get a 220V outlet installed, you're also going to get a higher amperage circuit installed at the same time, so you can charge at 220V/50A instead of 110V/12A, which is 8x faster.

But you need also the electric company to be able to deliver that power, roughly 10kW, in addition to all your other electric appliances. Common contracts - at least here (Italy) - are for 3 or 4.5kW, a few are 6 kW, 10 kW or more are rare, and you probably need to get to 15kW to be able to have those 10kW available for charging.

Anything less than 48kw is essentially unheard of in new construction in the US, and even old houses with 24kw service are getting upgraded. Less than 24 is considered essentially unsellable.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#495

Post by jaclaz »

xxpor wrote: post #494
jaclaz wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you need also the electric company to be able to deliver that power, roughly 10kW, in addition to all your other electric appliances. Common contracts - at least here (Italy) - are for 3 or 4.5kW, a few are 6 kW, 10 kW or more are rare, and you probably need to get to 15kW to be able to have those 10kW available for charging.

Anything less than 48kw is essentially unheard of in new construction in the US, and even old houses with 24kw service are getting upgraded. Less than 24 is considered essentially unsellable.

In new constructions, but what about the existing neighbourhoods?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#496

Post by xxpor »

jaclaz wrote: post #495
xxpor wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything less than 48kw is essentially unheard of in new construction in the US, and even old houses with 24kw service are getting upgraded. Less than 24 is considered essentially unsellable.

In new constructions, but what about the existing neighbourhoods?

Same thing. If your house was built after WW2 it will usually have 200a service if you're all electric, and maybe 150 if your heat is non-electric. Most older houses have also been upgraded at this point too. It's not uncommon for larger houses to have 400a (96kw) service.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#497

Post by mec31 »

zainhoda wrote: post #175
Schnitz wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people in the US do really not have 220V in the garage? I bet a lot of homes have either a sub-panel (and thus could add 220V very easily) or a laundry (dryer socket, 220V).

My guess is that older homes in the northeast will have an issue not with adding the outlet but upgrading from 100amp to 200amp service. I was quoted $10k for that upgrade. I had to decide between getting an EV and getting a heat pump. Decided on the heat pump, which I’m very happy with — it’s saving me thousands on heating oil.

Can confirm. I have an 1898 house in the Northeast. Just upgraded from 100A service to 200A service for $3900. I didn’t own the house at the time, but I believe it went from 40A to 100A in 1985.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#498

Post by twblalock »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #424
twblalock wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fix the cities first. Fix the crime, and the pollution, and the noise. Give people a way to live without constantly hearing their neighbors through the walls. Give people transit options where they don't need to fear for their physical safety. Give people a place to raise children without worrying about them picking up used needles on the street. Give people space to be something other than interchangeable sardines i…

[flagged]

If that was true, the transit situation in SF and NYC would not be as bad as it is — and the crime in NYC in particular has been increasing noticeably, despite that city being one of the wealthiest in the world. And yes, in NYC people of all social classes take the subway.

You also betray your true intentions with words like “force”. You want to force an urban transit-based lifestyle on everyone. You don’t want people to have a choice. It’s like you want to prove all the suburban NIMBYS right in their suspicions that new housing is an intentional attempt to destroy suburbs…

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#500

Post by mixmastamyk »

javajosh wrote: post #486
xyzelement wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: moved to the burbs after 40 years of city life (Europe and NYC) and I absolutely love it. Cars work absolutely great and with the decreased need to be physically in the office, suburban life is better and more convenient than ever. I feel like every post that shits on the suburbs should include how many kids do you have, for transparency. No family or kids, of course the city is better for you .

Well, you've got to do the experiment. Move to a major European city center, with kids, without a car, and see how you like it. I tried this in Berlin, and it was quite good! Getting around on the U-Bahn with kids is so nice . You get to hang out with your kids as you travel! Having a free, walkable Kita (daycare/school) is incredible. Being able to walk to useful things like groceries, or a coffee shop, was great. A…

Downtown and K-town are two of the very few places that are actually walkable in LA.
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