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Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

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Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#491

Post by Glavnokoman »

jstx1 wrote: post #489
malwarebytess wrote: post #483

Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…

> I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. You're implying that this is a bad thing and I don't get why it should be.

No. I do not think he's implying it is a bad thing by itself. Instead he explicitly says that those are the people who try to solve their problems at expense of others.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#492

Post by ddingus »

wombat-man wrote: post #348
sys_64738 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because he is so high profile and a visionary in his field at Apple. Or was. He is merely an early big fish swimming away so expect more as draconian old-school companies try to drag employees back to their cubes.

Wish we had cubicles. Nothing but big open offices at most places I know about.

Hellworld!

If nothing else, cubes help with simple, human space being inadequate.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#493

Post by jstx1 »

Glavnokoman wrote: post #491
jstx1 wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. You're implying that this is a bad thing and I don't get why it should be.

No. I do not think he's implying it is a bad thing by itself. Instead he explicitly says that those are the people who try to solve their problems at expense of others.

The expense of others is a point that works both ways. You could equally say that someone who insists on being remote because it's better for their family life is preventing/slowing down the return to office, and that's at the expense of people who prefer to be in the office.

But I wouldn't put it that way because I don't think it makes for a productive conversation - office or remote, people like what they like and they have their reasons for it.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#494

Post by mining »

marricks wrote: post #421
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #301

Some people are extremely sensitive to the issue of the remote work, like it is some kind of inalienable right, and any (perceived) threat to it makes them want to grab a pitchfork and proteat. I don't get it. Things are simple. The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away. Sometimes the sides engage in negotiations, where the side with more…

> Why make so much drama out of it? Well, lets see duckduckgo search the largest tech companies back to office dates... > Google tells employees to return to offices in April > Apple sets April 11 date for return to in-person work for corporate ... > Microsoft Returning to the Office on Feb. 28 as Covid Cases Decline I doubt they decided independently on a back to office date in the same ~1 month timeframe, remember…

> I doubt they decided independently on a back to office date in the same ~1 month timeframe

Given the reason for office closures was covid, I'd guess that companies in the same geographical area would make similar decisions about when it was appropriate to return to office work. It would be more surprising to me if large companies with similar decision-making throughout the pandemic, in the same geographical area, had drastically different timelines.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#495

Post by malwarebytess »

jstx1 wrote: post #489
malwarebytess wrote: post #483

Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…

> I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. You're implying that this is a bad thing and I don't get why it should be.

I have to agree with you. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Where people get their fulfillment from is their own business, and if their needs are met -- all the better. Everyone deserves contentment and fulfillment.

But, don't force me to make my life worse for that reason. You like the office? Go to the office.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#496

Post by ben_w »

barry-cotter wrote: post #297
ben_w wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In much the same way that “getting a lawyer” gives away one’s power in a courtroom.

Your lawyer is your agent. A lawyer representing a group of which you are a part is representing the group, and your interests and the groups can diverge.

That divergence can happen with a personal lawyer, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal–agent_problem

The reason an employee may want to join a union is because this divergence has already happened between the employee and the employer.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#497

Post by woodson »

curuinor wrote: post #280
carapace wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, if it were anyone else I would probably ignore this comment, but you seem to do your homework, to put it mildly. Are you saying he's, uh, misrepresenting himself? (I like Schmidhuber but I'm not knowledgeable enough to really evaluate his work or claims.)

he's had a decades-long tendency to just say that stuff has been invented before, sometimes by him, sometimes by obscure russians, that one time by Gauss. sometimes he's right, more of the time he's materially wrong, all of the time he's got no social sense.

To be fair, it’s not just him. Whenever I gave a poster at a conference, there was a chance that someone with a Russian sounding name would call the work trivial and say they had already published it in the nineties ;). Of course, on closer inspection that was not the case.

I don’t fully understand the tendency to do so, but it appears to be fairly widespread.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#498

Post by sinsterizme »

malwarebytess wrote: post #483

Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…

I definitely fall into this camp. I’m introverted, so the forced social interaction at work was perfect for me and sufficient to keep me socially gratified. I’ve tried to make up for it in the pandemic by being more socially active but it hasn’t been working. I’ll definitely be looking for an in-office position soon since some companies are returning. I think my mental health will greatly recover.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#499

Post by nsotelo »

jstx1 wrote: post #493
Glavnokoman wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I do not think he's implying it is a bad thing by itself. Instead he explicitly says that those are the people who try to solve their problems at expense of others.

The expense of others is a point that works both ways. You could equally say that someone who insists on being remote because it's better for their family life is preventing/slowing down the return to office, and that's at the expense of people who prefer to be in the office. But I wouldn't put it that way because I don't think it makes for a productive conversation - office or remote, people like what they like and…

These are not morally equivalent. The office-worker wants others to modify everyone's behaviour to support them, whereas the remote worker just wants to control their own behaviour. The remote worker is completely ambivalent to where others want to work.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#500

Post by mjan22640 »

malwarebytess wrote: post #483

Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…

In my experience, young man at the start of their carrier are willing to go to great lengths to work from home.

After they marry and get kids, they become willing to go great lengths to work from the office.

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