That’s surprisingly cheap
Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
491–500 of 597 posts
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#492This appears to be cutting of their nose to spite their face. We have a team of 50+ engineers that all use Docker for Mac for daily development tasks, but I suspect that will no longer be true in a rather short amount of time. Frankly, I don’t really know if anybody actually uses the UI components for it outside of starting and stopping the engine and for basic configuration of the VM. Everything else that comes with…
So you have a tool that your team use daily, but won’t pay a small license for it? I’m not sure I understand that logic. If the tool you have worked for you when it was free, it still works for you when you pay a small cost per month. Unless the cost is really that huge, I don’t see why that would be a reason to change.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#493Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anyone know how they plan to enforce this? Audits into the IP space connecting to hub.docker.com? Maybe arbitrary device OS detection a la (nmap -O $local_subnet | grep -ci 'Macbook') > 250
They won’t need to. The number of 250+ engineer businesses that would risk running unlicensed software is small.
Businesses that would knowingly risk this? Small.
Businesses that would unknowingly risk this because some engineer just went and installed Docker Desktop because they couldn't be bothered chasing this through management and procurement? Well..
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I hadn't heard of podman until now, and I imagine I'm not the only one. Does it consistently have functional parity with docker?
trey-jones, I apologize, but I cannot reply to you directly. The biggest showstopper for podman is that it runs entirely in userspace on Linux. Having said that, I use it as a drop-in replacement for Docker and it's only become better in the past year. This is somewhat irrelevant to the Docker Desktop product, as podman doesn't provide a nice packaged up solution, but you can use podman on Windows and Mac as long as…
> The biggest showstopper for podman is that it runs entirely in userspace on Linux.
Why do you believe that? Docker's "root by default" design decision is the bane of Docker. Podman is even described as Docker done right in that regard.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#495Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some people here actually want and need Docker features. For me it's the ability to run from a given image and know that I've got _exactly_ the same image that other developers have. Reproducibility.
I might be wrong, but I think his point is that by the time you're running a linux VM for docker, why not go ahead and get the rest of the tooling for free? Docker can still be run in the VM just fine, for cases where you want a reproducible build environment. I do this at any company that lets me (and by lets, I mean doesn't explicitly forbid) - They all give me a Mac, and the first (and sometimes only) thing I inst…
>for cases where you want a reproducible build environment.
Or just create your reproducible build environment as a QEMU VM image instead of a docker file. That way you only have to install a VM image, instead of install VM image/OS + install Docker + install your Docker file.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#496So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…
> $250k/year
fuck..i need to find a new job
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
So that's a couple hours for the first dev to make a list of WSL setup instructions or a VM template, and 5 minutes each for every dev after.
Does Mac have any sort of built-in VM framework like Hyper-V? I did not know that running basic Linux VMs was something you could do without downloading VMware or Virtual Box - which isn't as easy as just running a few scripts (especially in corporate environments where Brew and other tools might not be so readily available to all employees).
I meant that for windows. I don't have enough experience with mac to give great answers.
> downloading VMware or Virtual Box - which isn't as easy as just running a few scripts (especially in corporate environments where Brew and other tools might not be so readily available to all employees).
Docker Desktop needs the same level of access, because it runs virtual machines. If you could install it on your own, can't you install those on your own? If it was centrally managed, then IT can switch to one of those programs instead.
> Does Mac have any sort of built-in VM framework like Hyper-V?
Yosemite added Hypervisor.framework, I guess?
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#498Earlier quoted context omitted.
This poster has clearly worked at the same kind of companies I have. Plenty of them would gladly burn 10x what it would cost to just buy the damn license on engineering man-hours switching something that's inferior but free. Because it doesn't show up as an expense on the annual budget. The concept of opportunity cost is completely lost on a lot of business leaders.
> The concept of opportunity cost is completely lost on a lot of business leaders. A lot of it is that opportunity cost really isn't the problem of many business units. I spent a week building a crappy version of codecov for our few repos. Dev won't get in trouble for that because opportunity cost isn't a thing for us as a cost centre.
Unless there is a security audit and the dev has to justify why non authorized software is on the company network.
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…
OpEx is much easier to get vs CapX. That's why so many things are subscription now. (also Sarbaines Oxley pushed vendors into subscription models)
Now I'm curious: Sarbanes-Oxley pushed vendors into subscription models? How? What exactly did it change in the cost-benefit picture?
Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies
#500I think that the functionality provided by Docker needs to be a first class citizen in Linux, cli and user interface including and not just the backend. I don't like having my workflows tied to a private companies whims. Podman is a viable alternative, and while its tied to redhat, it's still better than Docker imho.
lol absolutely not. if you think it’s going to get first class UI support before qemu does you are delusional. docker may not even be the top dog in 5 years, it could easily lose to kubernetes or even plain VMs / jails.