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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#491

Post by visarga »

EarlKing wrote: post #451
fuzxi wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain why it's wrong when there's no money involved (e.g. fan-fiction and similar works).

Even if there's no money involved that can still damage the market for the work it derives from. It's one thing if the derivative work consists of original characters in the same setting, or existing characters but in a what-if scenario, but as soon as you start trying to write derivative works in the same vein as the original then you're damaging the original author's ability to market his existing work, and to cont…

That's great if you ignore the fact that almost all our ideas are borrowed. Copyrights work against the movement of ideas - the ground culture springs from. It is artificial scarcity, like DRM, unnatural in the domain of information.

> as soon as you start trying to write derivative works in the same vein as the original then you're damaging the original author's ability to market his existing work

That seems ridiculous. How would expanding literature hurt it? It would be like free PR for the original. Art (tales, legends, stories, music and potry) used to be orally transmitted, we forgot that too, with every retelling it was reinterpreted and adapted. Even Tolkien didn't invent the elves and Rowling didn't invent sorcery.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#492

Post by withinboredom »

dkarras wrote: post #200
cycomanic wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much would you bet that the same wouldn't happen to e.g. Warner Bros.. YT is quite definitely taking a stance, the problem is they're not taking a stance on truthfulness, but simply on how much money does it make us.

They are taking a stance on how much headache and money it will cost them, which is really reasonable. The reason old and unsustainable youtube died is because of the Warner Bros and alike - because their kind tend to hold an enormous amount of copyrights. If they feel they benefit from copyrights, then they will feel the most attacked. They, with their influence, said youtube cannot continue in this fashion back in…

I see where you’re coming from. But a class-action suit from nearly every user that has used public domain copyrighted material and couldn’t monetize it seems just as bad.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#493

Post by IshKebab »

dredmorbius wrote: post #415
chrisseaton wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What services do you know of that use MP3?

Virtually every podcast ever. YouTube itself seems to rely more on webm for audio. That seems to be a container for Opus or Vorbis formats. Vorbis and Opus themselves are lossy encoders (Ogg Vorbis).

Podcasts are pretty niche. Almost all codec use these days is from streaming services or video/phone calls - YouTube, Spotify, WhatsApp, etc. None of those use MP3.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#494

Post by selfhoster11 »

zentiggr wrote: post #355
RogerL wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you "build that into your strategy"? That is so easy to type, but unactionable. A piano teacher can't build her own streaming platform, and if she goes to a different platform she'll die in obscurity. Concretely, what should she have done differently?

It's that assumption of "dying in obscurity" that gives Google their damnable network effect. If there isn't enough marketing advice out there about finding as many channels and methods as you can, I'll eat this comment with barbecue sauce. Read up, utilize all the advice on everything except Google-owned properties, accept the lower visibility, and help neuter the algorithm beast. Or accept that you're riding the ti…

> If there isn't enough marketing advice out there about finding as many channels and methods as you can, I'll eat this comment with barbecue sauce.

The advice is all there, all right. It's just that most of it is "join a platform that's NOT being used by literally everyone on the planet", which is not very effective when "literally everyone on your planet" is the "raw material" that you fish your viewers out of.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#495

Post by vkou »

zentiggr wrote: post #365
vkou wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product. Any video hosting service that you will move to will behave in a very similar ways, in order to avoid getting sued out of existence by the media lobby. If you want to solve this problem, the solution can only come from dismantling the parasitic parts of the media industry. That requires political action.

Sure, that's step 2. Step 1 is walk away from the biggest, most obscure and capricious banning system around, to pull the biggest teeth of that copyright industry.

If you think that's step 2, then all you'll be doing is playing whack-a-mole as the MPAA/RIAA will either sue hosts out of existence, or strong-arm them into implementing something functionally identical, or worse than ContentID.

The MPAA/RIAA aren't stupid, and they can smell money. Hosting firms have money. Users uploading infringing content to a service gives them a stick to beat the hosting firm until money falls out.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#496

Post by dredmorbius »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #483
dredmorbius wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, yes. In the general case, someone (or some thing ) can sue for pretty much any reason whatsoever. One of the unappreciated roles of publishers and distributors is that they also serve as a legal defence organisation. You'll often hear people talk of how the publisher of a newspaper, magazine, or books also have lawyers to deal with, say, libel or other claims. Copyright isn't the only consideration here…

>In the general case, someone (or some thing) can sue for pretty much any reason whatsoever. in the general case, copyright trolls aren't going to pursue Joe Schmoe over their indie band cover. you'd put hundreds in and barely make pennies back even if you win. But in the youtube case, it's an easy profit with little consequence. Suing is easy, but costly. DMCA's is easy and zero cost, especially once you automate it…

True. Though YouTube's ContentID / 3-strikes system isn't even the DMCA process. It's easier yet for the claimant.

It does help reduce the legal threat to YouTube itself. The company is more likely to be sued by a large copyright holder than its many small video uploaders. Though the latter have been known to show up in a disgruntled state of mind and with harmful intent at HQ. That risk is also shifted, from shareholders to employees and contractors.

YouTube from a risk perspective is grotesquely fascinating.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#497

Post by polypodiopsi »

creato wrote: post #398
bcrescimanno wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agreed. I'd love to see Google (and let's get Twitch in there as well, while we're at it) working with content creators to push for legal change. To me, that's what's most disappointing: Google will spend millions on lobbying to legally collect more and more information about me; but, they don't have the inclination to use their size and scale to push a significant expansion of Fair Use Doctrine (or, if th…

It was out of self interest of course, but, Google did just finish a decade long, costing probably hundreds of millions of dollars in legal fees, battle with Oracle to fight for reasonable copyright interpretation for software developers. This current situation on YT is the result of another multi-billion dollar legal fight with the music industry. I don't like how YT handles this either but I put most of the blame o…

you are getting to things confused here: fair use of copyrighted material, and being responsible and responsive for a quasi judical algorithmic process and its mistakes.

(remember its beethovens moonlight sonata, one of the most famous classical pieces period. i dont think you even could copyright a part of it, at least not just the sequence of notes)

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#498

Post by polypodiopsi »

burkaman wrote: post #465
nine_k wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To leave a ton of money on the table, and let the competition eat that space, because 0.1% of DMCA requests would be served with an overreaction? Sorry, this is not going to make business sense. If you want a free video publishing platform that does user outreach for you, you got to pay a price; the false positives is a part of the price, alas.

I agree it doesn't make business sense, but it does make moral sense. And yes, this hypothetical service probably wouldn't be free.

well what kind of a monstrosity is this buisness sense then when it is strcturally incompatible with any moral whatsoever (as seems to be more or less the consensus of the first couple comments here)

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#499

Post by dredmorbius »

IshKebab wrote: post #493
dredmorbius wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtually every podcast ever. YouTube itself seems to rely more on webm for audio. That seems to be a container for Opus or Vorbis formats. Vorbis and Opus themselves are lossy encoders (Ogg Vorbis).

Podcasts are pretty niche. Almost all codec use these days is from streaming services or video/phone calls - YouTube, Spotify, WhatsApp, etc. None of those use MP3.

What codecs do those applications use?

How do they preserve or modify white noise?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#500

Post by ChefGabe »

qwertox wrote: post #46
jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

1) Feed a computer with MIDI files of public domain music and render it as audio 2) Upload to YouTube 3) File copyright dispute to YouTube for any (future?) uploaded video which contains the music which used to be in the public domain 4) Have Google reject the videos 5) Create a site or an app which allows you to license that public domain music for a fee. 6) Notify YouTube who has licensed this public domain music.…

What if someone exploited this to such an extent that Google could no longer ignore the issue? All someone needs to do is write an open source library that automates this. Almost like exposing a security flaw to the public to force the company to fix it. Sure it would enable bad actors but it would subvert them in the long run. I feel this may be the only way to force the company's hand as an individual.
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