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I Miss Working from the Office

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Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#491

Post by xur17 »

ghaff wrote: post #317
ck425 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can debate separately if companies should force people back to office. But in this case it is an either or. If the advantage of the office comes from being around your team and colleagues then it very much is an either or between home working or everyone being in the office.

It's not wholly binary--maybe 2 scheduled days a week will work for both many of the people who would just as soon mostly work from home and those who want to be in an office with their team. But, in general, yes. A "you can come into an office if you want" policy is probably not going to be very satisfactory for someone who wants a co-located team and much of their team chooses not to come in most days or even live…

> I suspect a fair number of people who can do so will end up choosing jobs based on remote policies and how companies operate in practice.

I think so as well, and honestly I think this is the best outcome. Every company doesn't have to be everything for everyone.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#492

Post by Grimm1 »

zmmmmm wrote: post #416
Grimm1 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a studio apartment with every distraction I could possibly imagine (most of my own design since before this I'd just come here just to rest and recharge) the first few months were rough and overall I really prefer the office. The only thing working from home has done for me in terms of work is give me some more flexibility and prepared me for how to block out the distractions for when I move on to my own thing…

Curious about your "work in VR" comment - what is your setup? I have been trying to do this with my Oculus Quest 1 but the resolution just seems to low / rendering quality too poor. I can see the potential for the future though and am very curious if a Quest 2 gets over a significant hump in terms of these problems.

I'm using the Quest2 with ImmersedVR -- I find that it's more than enough for me and I can work for a few hours before I feel like I need to take a VR break. The headset is light enough that I don't super notice the weight and I find the text quality is pretty good.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#493

Post by michaelcampbell »

st1x7 wrote: post #48

I think that what isn't discussed enough is the variance in quality of your office environment and of your home office and how that quality affects your preferences about working from home. It sounds quite obvious but in these arguments people often just state what they personally like and leave it at that. Your office can be place where you still have the option to work uninterrupted but also get the benefits of fac…

> Your office can be place where you still have the option to work uninterrupted but also get the benefits of face-to-face interaction, casual exposure to work ideas, better meetings, having all the equipment you need, separating work and personal life.

It /can/ be, if your company isn't in the "Because Google Did It", cost savings masquerading and spun as "collaborative" open office plan cult.

I like being at an office for face to face things, but as a developer I need uninterrupted time and the "new fad" offices don't provide it.

But your point is well taken; I'm fortunate enough that my job can afford me a house that's too big for me to live in, (mind, I have also decided to live not "in the city", where things are actually affordable) so I have a complete room as a home-office, with a restroom, and whatever supplies I need.

But that's also by choice; I CHOSE to give up being near a lot of restaurants and offices and short commutes, so that I could have this.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#494

Post by michaelcampbell »

dandellion wrote: post #117
st1x7 wrote: post #48

I think that what isn't discussed enough is the variance in quality of your office environment and of your home office and how that quality affects your preferences about working from home. It sounds quite obvious but in these arguments people often just state what they personally like and leave it at that. Your office can be place where you still have the option to work uninterrupted but also get the benefits of fac…

That's a very good point, I'm really enjoying working from home and I attributed it mostly to not having to do the one hour commute each way, but there's so many more things that add up: - At home I have the most comfortable chair I could find on the market that fits me perfectly. At work there are very basic adjustable chairs and they use some slippery fabric. - At home I have an ergonomic mechanical keyboard vs. a…

I always bring in my own KB and mouse. Life's too short to be dicking with supplied sub-par operating equipment.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#495

Post by toomanyrichies »

mavelikara wrote: post #366
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree. If you like working in the office, then work in the office, and if you prefer working at home, then work at home. We need to be inclusive of people, and let them work the way _they_ best feel productive. It is unfortunate that people think that it has to be either one or the other.

> If you like working in the office, then work in the office The thing many people like about the office is that other people are there. This is not just for socializing reasons - for example, junior employees might like more senior ones around to have casual conversations and learn from. So the ones among us that like the office do not just want to be there - they want others to be also there.

> So the ones among us that like the office do not just want to be there - they want others to be also there.

I mean... too bad? Speaking as someone who prefers to work from home, I hope those people realize that their desire to co-locate with their peers doesn't supersede our desire to work solo. As they say, "it takes two to tango."

I for one am glad that many companies that would normally never consider remote work are now doing so. While I don't have data to back this up, I'd wager that the average company implements co-location more out of reflex or habit than due to a careful comparison of all possible work arrangements.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#496

Post by pelasaco »

> I fundamentally do not think remote teams can ever be as > productive as in-person teams

Remote teams are much more productive[1] as "in-person teams". What maybe is missing for you is that remote teams are polishing their process, documentations and tools and searching people that "fit" in this working style for years while the "in-person teams" are trying to learn it just now.

[1] https://www.timedoctor.com/blog/remote-teams-future-of-work/

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#497

Post by bartread »

Tomis02 wrote: post #478
bartread wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you reign in the cynicism a bit, please? I'm talking about my entire team, including me. These are people I know and work with on a daily basis. Part of knowing people is that you can tell when they're not quite themselves. I've also polled my team on a semi-regular basis throughout the last 8 months on their preferences going forward, which is how I know I have a range of preferences across the spectrum of WFH…

I noticed a very strong current towards employee wellbeing emerge in companies where upper management wants everyone back in the office (for various reasons), and then used to justify why permanent remote work isn't an option. Cynicism is well-deserved. Your mileage may vary, of course. Your perception on the team might be true, or it might be that people are afraid of saying how they feel for fear of being singled o…

Apologies: I was feeling a bit tired when I wrote the above so, again, sorry for the unjustifiably harsh tone.

Companies are a mixed bag. Some of them behave in ways that are deeply cynical. Plenty also don't, or at least most of the time try to avoid doing so.

I will say one of the reasons for more concern over employee welfare is that more employees, at all grades, are displaying signs that all is not well. It's simply a very unusual situation so, in some sense, the greater noise around welfare is to be expected.

With that being said, and despite my general disdain for cynicism (I live in Cambridge: there's a lot of people who want to play the "world weary cynic" role and it gets old), it does have to be acknowledged that despite the best intentions of employees and leaders at all levels, when push comes to shove a lot of "core values" and "culture" go out the window.

Especially when the choice is that or the company goes under, or that and a shareholder revolt, or you can see the writing on the wall and it's this terrible course of action now or a much worse course of action later. People will also of course choose to use wider market conditions as cover for action they've been planning or perhaps should have taken anyway.

All in all it's grim and, as such, it's one of the reasons that if I ever run a company we will have as few "values" as we can get away with, and we certainly won't be trumpeting our "culture" with any self-serving presentations.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#498

Post by silly-silly »

jacob019 wrote: post #255
silly-silly wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans were never intended to spend so much time alone, we’re social animals. I am not a social animal, I think you'll find the 'non social humans' to be a larger group than you imagine. Just because we have 'do' doesn't mean we all are.

I also enjoy time alone a little too much. I don't care to make much of an effort to socialize. Sometimes I wish I cared more, but meh. Still, I am a social animal. I live in a city, with other animals. I make sounds that other animals understand, and I can understand them too. I wear my emotional state on my face and I can perceive the emotional state of others by looking at them. I rely on my community to meet my b…

I guess this all depends on what we call 'social' in this sense. If we take such a broad definition that interaction is the basis of defining a 'social animal' there is nothing on the planet that isnt a social thing. Which is why I simplified the definition down to "requiring socialization to thrive" which clearly is not the case for us as a species.

No x is an island.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#499

Post by ukyrgf »

ghaff wrote: post #439
ukyrgf wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think there is a pretty huge gap between most people's office/home differences, and what the OP misses: > I miss occasional after-work drinks at the sky bar with the $18 well drinks that we always convinced management to pay for. It just took me a dozen emails, 6 phone calls, and 2 tedious in face conversations to get accounting to buy me a single AAAA battery - not AA, not AAA, but AAAA, yes I'm sure, AAAA, y…

So. I have to ask, why? A pair seems to be $6 on Amazon. Why wouldn't one simply order it and expense it? And even if expensing weren't possible for some reason, was it really worth your time?

Of course, but at a certain point you think "how many more times can I possibly have to re-confirm this?" and you just let it run its course. To top it off, they bought 2 2-packs. The last battery lasted me 4 years so I guess they're invested until 2036.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#500

Post by Zanneth »

toomanyrichies wrote: post #495
mavelikara wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you like working in the office, then work in the office The thing many people like about the office is that other people are there. This is not just for socializing reasons - for example, junior employees might like more senior ones around to have casual conversations and learn from. So the ones among us that like the office do not just want to be there - they want others to be also there.

> So the ones among us that like the office do not just want to be there - they want others to be also there. I mean... too bad? Speaking as someone who prefers to work from home, I hope those people realize that their desire to co-locate with their peers doesn't supersede our desire to work solo. As they say, "it takes two to tango." I for one am glad that many companies that would normally never consider remote wor…

It's not just about your desire or someone else's desire. It's also about what is best for the company, and in the case of junior engineers learning the tricks of the trade, best for the next generation of tech workers.
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