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Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

politico.com

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Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t hold a random analyst, usually a contractor and not a “government official”, for not sharing your opinion on what a 200-year old, intentionally vague, document meant about who-was-contacting-who on a pice of technology that wasn’t invented. Let alone a law that was, albeit controversial at the time, in place for almost 20 years. Would you prefer that your public servants follow the law... or do whatever the…

We hold low grade solders responsible for following illegal orders, even when those orders come from the very top of the chain of command. Although its giant double standard, despite knowledge of illegal acts frequently those higher in the chain of command aren't held responsible (aka, look up waterboarding).

You nailed it, but, “illegal orders” actually called “unlawful orders”. Soldiers and Sailors are only required to follow “lawful orders” not “moral orders”. The Patriot Act is The Law. Any person who is a conscientious objector to The Patriot Act would/should loose their job and clearance. The Edward Snowden case is simple: he betrayed the trust of all Americans when he broke his oath, and he deserves justice. There are proper checks and balances, and laws, that govern how constitutional violations should be reported and handled. Edward Snowden ignored all of these chose vigilanteism over the rule of law. He is no patriot.

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#492
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world, yes. In our actual world, the Constitution was ratified by a very small number of representatives from the population. And those representatives were drawn from and selected by white male landowners who owned some minimum threshold of land. IIRC that counted for less than 10% of the people living in the proto-US.

So your solution is to throw Congress in jail? Or do you have another proposal?

Huh? How are you reading that in my comment? I explicitly think that throwing Congress in jail would be silly, and actually unjust. But I didn't at all address that.

I was merely pointing out that the US's "government for the people by the people" was laughably not at all that back when it was founded. "The people" didn't give the government abc powers; a single-digit percentage of them did.

Beyond that, suggesting that an armed insurrection could ever be successful at deposing the US government... that's a silly fantasy.

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they actually serve the country and the government. This conspiracy theory has no basis. Ames was a double agent, not a great example.

Where's the evidence the CIA serves the country and government? There's not a lot of evidence that it is effective at protecting the American people from anything . There is a lot of evidence that the CIA is doing whatever it can to ensure that the %1 of American society get their way with the world, however. That's not the same as 'serving country and government', by any stretch of the imagination.

I don’t think there is any evidence that they are doing whatever they can to serve the 1%.

There is in fact a lot of evidence that they serve the country.

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