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Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

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Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#491

Post by xvector »

dahfizz wrote: post #460
rgovostes wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny because the Lighting connector has been around since 2012, when Android phones were largely using Micro USB, with an awkward flirtation with the wide USB3 connector. Now they're standardizing on USB-C, so if you were upgrading frequently you may have needed 3 cables in the past 8 years. Before then iPhones used the 30-pin connector, backwards compatible with 5-year-old iPod accessories. At that time other…

This is misguided. The problem is not how quickly one format or the other iterates. The problem is forcing your users to endure a closed, licensed format. A USB accessory will work on any device, but a lightning accessory only works on an iPhone, to nobody's benefit but Apple. Apple's hate of standards is anti-consumer, and that's why the EU ruled against them. What particularly ircs me is that Apple has acknowledged…

> The problem is forcing your users to endure a closed, licensed format.

Lightning was a huge win for consumers because it was years ahead of the incompetently designed clusterfuck that micro-USB was.

> Apple's hate of standards is anti-consumer, and that's why the EU ruled against them.

Apple’s “hate of standards” is in part the reason the USB-C ecosystem exists today. They contributed quite a bit to its development.

The EU ruled against Apple because the EU is full of bureaucratic idiots that care more about looking good than actually knowing what they’re doing. The circlejerk that the EU is always correct needs to end.

If the EU ruling happened a few years ago we’d never have had Lightning and we’d have been stuck with the piece of shit known as micro-USB. Thankfully, Apple was allowed to innovate independently as any remotely reasonable government would allow, and created a connector that would later inspire USB-C.

> What particularly ircs me is that Apple has acknowledged that USB-C is the superior plug by going all in on their laptops. But they can't let go of all the money they make selling licenses for third party cables on iPhones.

Catch-22; if they change the cable people like you complain that they’re trying to obsolete accessories, and if they don’t change the cable people like you complain that they’re trying to profiteer off of accessories.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#492

Post by [deleted] »

braythwayt wrote: post #472

A lot of comments are arguing about whether the software should have been modified to accept the HEIC format. Let's go with "no" for the sake of argument. They probably can't accept an mp3 of me singing my answers, either. But! If I upload an HEIC, an mp3, a keynote file, or anything else unacceptable... Why doesn't the site provide an immediate "File format not accepted, please upload .gif, .jpg, or .png" message? A…

[deleted]

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#493

Post by Polylactic_acid »

treesprite82 wrote: post #480
braythwayt wrote: post #472

A lot of comments are arguing about whether the software should have been modified to accept the HEIC format. Let's go with "no" for the sake of argument. They probably can't accept an mp3 of me singing my answers, either. But! If I upload an HEIC, an mp3, a keynote file, or anything else unacceptable... Why doesn't the site provide an immediate "File format not accepted, please upload .gif, .jpg, or .png" message? A…

It does have pretty much exactly that message. The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. What they're doing is the same as 99% of other sites that expect images. But it's probably fair to expect it to be even more streamlined (i.e: clear conversion instructions) given the circumstances of a time-limited exam.

Most other sites would accept the upload, try to parse it and then return an error message. Its always the sites fault if it just gets stuck

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#494

Post by cowsandmilk »

lone_haxx0r wrote: post #348
azinman2 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, as many others have pointed out by specifying the accepted file formats in the tag, they would avoid HEIC entirely as the phone would simply convert to one of the accepted formats. It's also not clear to me that this patent license is actually an issue in terms of decoding and converting file formats on the backend. Even if that were the case, I'm certain there is some commercial license software they c…

1. I think both parties are at fault The testing system for not using the tag appropiately and Apple for using a closed, patent encumbered format as the default when most of their users don't know about software patents. > It's also not clear to me that this patent license is actually an issue in terms of decoding and converting file formats on the backend. It's reasonable to assume that it is. 2. Sure, the college c…

If the iPhone took pictures in webp format, exactly the same thing would have occurred. College board doesn’t accept that either despite it being open.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#495

Post by alistairSH »

_snsh wrote: post #473
sib wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A (high school) student who's unwilling to use Safari because of privacy concerns but would be ok using Chrome? That sounds like a serious edge case.

Sadly, it's not. I've had lots students who would use the Opera VPN or one of the "free" anti-virus providers VPNs because they got sold (by adds or dumb friends) that it would be safer. You seriously over-estimate the "tech-savviness" of the average student and that really is part of the issue I'm pointing out here.

I can confirm. The average graduating high school senior or first-year college student is woefully inept at technical tasks. They grew up with tablets and smart phones, but outside the common apps, they aren't any more tech-savvy than anybody else.

Source: I work in tech for higher ed.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#496

Post by tedunangst »

tedunangst wrote: post #398
azinman2 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, as many others have pointed out by specifying the accepted file formats in the tag, they would avoid HEIC entirely as the phone would simply convert to one of the accepted formats. It's also not clear to me that this patent license is actually an issue in terms of decoding and converting file formats on the backend. Even if that were the case, I'm certain there is some commercial license software they c…

Wait. There's a way to get safari to upload HEIF without conversion? All my photos, which are HEIF on my phone, turn into jpeg when I upload them. I've been trying to get the original HEIF off for months.

Do I really need to explain that if I upload a file to Dropbox or iCloud it's still not on the web site form where I want it?

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#497

Post by LeifCarrotson »

treesprite82 wrote: post #480
braythwayt wrote: post #472

A lot of comments are arguing about whether the software should have been modified to accept the HEIC format. Let's go with "no" for the sake of argument. They probably can't accept an mp3 of me singing my answers, either. But! If I upload an HEIC, an mp3, a keynote file, or anything else unacceptable... Why doesn't the site provide an immediate "File format not accepted, please upload .gif, .jpg, or .png" message? A…

It does have pretty much exactly that message. The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. What they're doing is the same as 99% of other sites that expect images. But it's probably fair to expect it to be even more streamlined (i.e: clear conversion instructions) given the circumstances of a time-limited exam.

No, what 99% of sites are doing is
If you do that, Safari will convert the HEIC image to a JPEG automatically when you try to upload it.

What they did instead was to poorly reinvent the accept header in Javascript as follows:

     {
        const split = file.name.split('.')
        const fileType = split[split.length-1].toLowerCase()
        const isAllowedExtension = extensions.includes(`.${fileType}`)
      }}
    />
(per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23261598).

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#498

Post by httpsterio »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #493
treesprite82 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does have pretty much exactly that message. The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. What they're doing is the same as 99% of other sites that expect images. But it's probably fair to expect it to be even more streamlined (i.e: clear conversion instructions) given the circumstances of a time-limited exam.

Most other sites would accept the upload, try to parse it and then return an error message. Its always the sites fault if it just gets stuck

Eh that's not often a good idea. The service should only look at the file header for the mime type and decide based on that if it should even begin to upload.

Mime types can be spoofed and if you read the data blob's mime from its' type, then just an extension rename will fool it. But if you look at the magic numbers you're saving your server's resources and the uploader's time as it doesn't even try to move the file if the mime is not acceptable. No reason not to do it on the client-side first.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#499

Post by ian-g »

xienyc wrote: post #101
coffeefirst wrote: post #49

"Our system broke, you're screwed now, sorry" is never an acceptable answer. Do they really not have anyone who knows how to get stuff done? 1. Take the files and figure out what to do with them so they can be read. This isn't a hard problem. 2. Ask everyone affected to email you the photo or a new photo of the documents. We'll just take it on trust that you do so honestly because there's no way you would've seen thi…

>"Our system broke, you're screwed now, sorry" is never an acceptable answer. That's not what happened at all. The college board admitted their fault and are letting students take the test again. Even without that, they mentioned in their FAQ that JPEGs and PNGs are the only file types acceptable and even sent out a tweet (which should have been an email) a week before especially for iPhone users to let them know how…

I'd imagine it's worse now, but I was sweating blood during my AP tests 8 and 9 years ago.

If I were told by College Board that they messed up, they couldn't verify what I did, and that I'd have to take the tests again, I'd be livid. I would feel incredibly screwed.

On top of a pandemic, new test guidelines, classes going remote (and the associated growing pains), studying for the test, and some extra stress-studying because some classes inevitably were taught ineffectively at the start of remote courses, now some people have to take the test all over again? That's a lot for a most people but especially high schoolers

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#500

Post by pilif »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #494
lone_haxx0r wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I think both parties are at fault The testing system for not using the tag appropiately and Apple for using a closed, patent encumbered format as the default when most of their users don't know about software patents. > It's also not clear to me that this patent license is actually an issue in terms of decoding and converting file formats on the backend. It's reasonable to assume that it is. 2. Sure, the college c…

If the iPhone took pictures in webp format, exactly the same thing would have occurred. College board doesn’t accept that either despite it being open.

webp is also possibly patent-encumbered. At least if you ask various members of the MPEG-LA.

The only safe format for photo-like content remains JPEG probably for decades to come

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