Other than the fact that they have some sort of block chain backend, how is Libra even different from Venmo?
Seems like they're just banning it because they don't understand it.
France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#492What do they mean to "block Libra"?
To block merchants using it?
If yes, I think it won't matter at all. EU already have real-time electronic payments and mostly everyone uses contactless cards or appley/android pay.
I think the benefit of Libra, as peer-to-peer money is valuable for countries in Africa or other parts of the world where cash is king and unsafe (due to high crime rate).
Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#493Is EUR a threat to souverinity of the nations then? What is the difference between libra and BTC if not the sad state of affairs wrt to btc's usefulness as an everyday currency?
Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.
It's legally tricky to be anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook, but I don't think it's morally tricky. The entire idea of anti-trust (and frankly, the premise of most western democracies) is to prevent the over-concentration of power. Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states. I'm not sure that we as a society have ever dealt with a non…
Some people are questioning:
“Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states”
Op did not clarify his reasoning. Though I have thought about this and here are mine.
If strip down a “nation state” to its bare essence, it is an idea. Lines drawn on a map, and symbols(flags, anthems etc). Add in the government directing education, and we end up with masses that can be influenced to behave in specific ways. i.e socialisation and sense of identity.
Now, we know that government plays a significant part in the country and in the world.
Now let’s consider FB. FB has by far the largest network of people that are connected in one massive network. I suspect Information (memes) could spread much faster on Fb, Whatsapp and insta than they could prior to these. Even email was never as fast. Since FB has control of the network without over sight on the algorithms and filtering, they wield significant power to shape global conversations. Shaping global conversations fundamentally can lead to over throwing of leaders with out ever a bullet being shot, it could lead to genocide, nationalism etc etc.
It’s no surprise that the EU is on high alert.
Edit: I think this requires more exploring. This is fundamentally a war against a new form of influence & control of masses of people.
See previous wars: religion vs state, state vs monarchy etc etc.
Has anyone considered this perspective before? Would appreciate any links
Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#495Earlier quoted context omitted.
The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.
Europe has developed a fairly anti-US-big-tech attitude recently. As a Brit I kind of understand it. We probably don't benefit from importing all of our 21st century products and services from the US, especially when these companies don't pay any taxes in our countries. Europe as a market has higher taxes, more regulation, and has more cultural barriers giving us a huge disadvantage when trying to compete in the glob…
> ... when these companies don't pay any taxes in our countries.
I'm not sure whose fault that is: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/dec/05/ireland-r...
Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#496Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is Facebook more powerful than Google/Alphabet? > I'm not sure that we as a society have ever dealt with a non-state actor this powerful before. Amazon and Google being of somewhat similar or greater power at least tempers down that statement. And unlike Facebook they have really good reputations outside specific parts of circles like the tech circle.
Facebook has way more control over the social fabric and distribution of information than Google does. We've seen violence-inciting disinformation campaigns spread through Facebook and rack up a literal death count to the point that governments have angrily demanded intervention from FB with the result of FB shrugging their shoulders and going 'our bad, we didn't hire enough moderators'.
I still remember back in the late-noughties when the DOD was inviting arabs to come to the U.S. and attend workshops teaching how to use facebook to organize insurgencies. That stuff is out of fashion now, but we were oddly okay with it back during the Arab Spring.
Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is Facebook more powerful than Google/Alphabet? > I'm not sure that we as a society have ever dealt with a non-state actor this powerful before. Amazon and Google being of somewhat similar or greater power at least tempers down that statement. And unlike Facebook they have really good reputations outside specific parts of circles like the tech circle.
Facebook has way more control over the social fabric and distribution of information than Google does. We've seen violence-inciting disinformation campaigns spread through Facebook and rack up a literal death count to the point that governments have angrily demanded intervention from FB with the result of FB shrugging their shoulders and going 'our bad, we didn't hire enough moderators'.
> We've seen violence-inciting disinformation campaigns spread through Facebook and rack up a literal death count
To me that signals they have less 'control' of the distribution of information on their own platform. It's debatable who could wield more social influence, Google or Facebook. On me, it'd certainly be Google, since I use about a dozen google products (Chrome, Gmail, Search, Mesh, Calendar, Analytics, Voice, Android, Scholar, Cloud, Maps, etc.), and zero Facebook products.
Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#498Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but Facebook will have enormous power in this deal as they own the platform. Distrusting them is the only logical conclusion given their track record and power. Libra isn't a decentralized crypto currency, it's a new fiat currency minted by a private corporation with a very questionable track record and an uncomfortable amount of concentrated power. It's also seated in a country with a very weak track record enf…
> They are in essence trying to bring billions (trillions?) of dollars worth of the worlds savings into US jurisdiction (and likely invested in the US economy via bonds and stocks That's not true: > What are the actual assets that will be backing each Libra coin? The actual assets will be a collection of low-volatility assets, including bank deposits and government securities in currencies from stable and reputable c…
> invested in the US economy via bonds and stocks
> bank deposits and government securities
Your point doesn't contradict mine. It actually re-enforces it.
What percentage will be in US deposits and government securities? US bank deposits get invested into the market, so yes, this would take the money from someone in France, who would currently hold savings in a French bank involved in the local economy and move it to Facebook's vault.
The very link you provided lacks transparency and is exactly the type of reason I distrust Facebook. In fact it doesn't have a single #, percentage or actual thing I could verify/which they are committing to, the language is vague... I'm guessing intentionally so.
Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's legally tricky to be anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook, but I don't think it's morally tricky. The entire idea of anti-trust (and frankly, the premise of most western democracies) is to prevent the over-concentration of power. Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states. I'm not sure that we as a society have ever dealt with a non…
Facebook is the most powerful private entity on the earth right now, far more powerful than most nation states. This is hyperbole at best. Facebook does not have an army, weapons, or literally anyone that would be willing to die or even be physically put out to defend it. I’m no Facebook fan, but let’s not let Facebook hysteria overrun these comments.
Yeah they only know everything about 1B people and can swing elections but other than these they are just a regular company selling stuff.
Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra
#500nations also used to be convinced it is inherent to their sovereignty to tell us who to worship and who to marry. this is no longer the case. not sure there is a principled reason why the power to govern the exchange of goods and services (which is what money facilitates) should be up to them.
Taxes are inherently in the domain of the state, and to do that you need to mandate how accounting and payment of taxes work. That really needs a standardized currency.
"Taxes are inherently in the domain of the state,"
assumption right there