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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#421

Post by civicsquid »

bko wrote: post #414
civicsquid wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more of an anti-tech mindset more than an anti-Facebook mindset. If Google did this, I imagine that Germany would be just as upset. If, for example, Goldman Sachs did the same thing, that might not go over smoothly, but I don't think it would see such a negative reaction. I'd assume that feels more in line with the status-quo, whereas tech companies getting involved in financial instruments is not as fam…

I think the way Facebook did this was the right way. It set up Libra as an independent non-profit and they have a non controlling share. The founding members include Stripe, Visa, Mastercard and PayPal. All the media coverage on Libra is incredibly dishonest and ill-informed.

That's fair, I think I forget that not everyone knows that this is a project managed by a consortium, not by a single company alone.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#422

Post by rightbyte »

an_ko wrote: post #408
lacker wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin are usually by design not controlled by anyone but the users participating in mining and trading it. Banning that is like banning people from trading in carrots; you can't. It's very different when there's a company with its own financial interests manning the door, regardless of what company that is.

Yes you can ban trading in carrots. Especially in Germany where the law is ... enforced.

A ban make most things commercially unviable. If botcoin had widespread use a ban would make it an underground payment system.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#423

Post by gjulianm »

HashThis wrote: post #186

They say: > “no private entity can claim monetary power, which is inherent to the sovereignty of nations” They mean, "When the establishment rigs the economy by diluting the national currency, then the establishment must not let their citizens escape the damage". People talk about a "rigged economy". Where I found in economics it really happens is 3% inflation that comes from constantly printing money. Low income and…

Facebook can also rig the economy, even more probable because it is a for-profit business. And if current state monetary powers are quite unaccountable already, imagine when the monetary power is a foreign company.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#424

Post by ipsum2 »

mokus wrote: post #393
lacker wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

How many of those are backed (edit: created and fully controlled) by a foreign company with 2.4 billion active users and extremely questionable privacy track record?

> backed (edit: created and fully controlled) by a foreign company

This is factually wrong. Facebook controls a very small portion of Libra (https://libra.org/en-US/partners/

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#425

Post by oscargrouch »

rainyMammoth wrote: post #345

As a European I'm very happy about this decision. I'm not against Cryptocurrencies but Libra is an attempt by some of the most corrupt and unethical entities in the world (Facebook,...) to control financial flows. I can only hope other countries will follow soon.

[flagged]

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#426

Post by darawk »

akie wrote: post #396
buboard wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, Germany generally also controls the Euro for the so called PIIGS countries. For all intents and purposes the euro is just as much as an externally-controlled entity as the Libra.

Oh come on, you’re being (deliberately?) quite liberal with the truth here.

Not really. Germany effectively controls the euro, and it's not a great thing for many of its member countries. It was entered into as a union, sure, but now it's effectively a prison.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#427

Post by kypro »

lacker wrote: post #377
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

Europe has developed a fairly anti-US-big-tech attitude recently. As a Brit I kind of understand it. We probably don't benefit from importing all of our 21st century products and services from the US, especially when these companies don't pay any taxes in our countries.

Europe as a market has higher taxes, more regulation, and has more cultural barriers giving us a huge disadvantage when trying to compete in the global market with the big US (or increasingly Chinese) tech companies.

Unfortunately I think we may need protectionist policies like this if we want to develop our own tech companies and products. It's the same situation the US is in with manufacturing. The US simply can't compete with countries like China, so if the US is passionate about preserving its manufacturing sector the only answer is protectionism.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#428

Post by AdrianB1 »

stkdump wrote: post #290
2ion wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to some foobar in the last century, which I'm sure everyone is aware of. Maybe if they'd turn their minds towards what ruling parties have had a monopoly on government for decades as to not allow one club to get co…

> Germany is deconstructing itself by [...] ignoring millenium problems in governance, such as unchecked mass migration. What are you talking about? Germany is 25% immigrants, the US is close to 100% immigrants.

Not in a very short period of time, the intensity of a phenomenon should not be ignored.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#429

Post by bko »

oblio wrote: post #418
bko wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving people an option to invest in a basket of relatively safe investments and currencies is growth of private power that will lead to fascism?

You're assuming those people are not forced, tricked or otherwise persuaded by a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars, to use Libra. And that company has every incentive to do what I listed above. It also has very shady morals, as proven repeatedly. Yes, it's a small individual loss (not being to invest in Libra) but probably a big collective gain.

> You're assuming those people are not forced, tricked or otherwise persuaded by a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars, to use Libra

Anybody who creates a product tries to persuade people to use their product. You can be a cynic and just attribute ill intent of basically everything but it's not really productive

Facebook doesn't control Libra. They have a non-controlling stake in the Libra Foundation, a non-profit.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#430

Post by riking »

bko wrote: post #406
gjulianm wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest, if Libra takes hold as Facebook wants it to, given the power Facebook already has over communications, ads and social networks, it very well could affect the capability of states to exert their own monetary policy. Not a single one of the examples you made had such a real possibility of being as big as Libra could be.

Facebook has a non controlling stake in Libra. Libra Foundation is an independent, not-for-profit membership organization. Do you feel a similar threat of non-profits that try to give financial opportunities to people around the world?

Are you (1) employed by the Libra Foundation or Facebook, (2) in possession of a large Libra stake, or (3) duped by the marketing and in possession of a large amount of free time?
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