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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#491

Post by warp_factor »

yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

perfect summary of Silicon Valley. Everyone pretends to be on the morale high ground, until they see their paycheck.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#492

Post by netcan »

eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money

Even here, different people in different situations might see this as either choosing idealism over money or the opposite.

I hear the Danish public service is good. Here though (ireland) the public service has a name for meaningless jobs with good conditions. This may be a self fullfiling prophecy.

Sometimes the differences can get abstract.

I watched an interview while back with coalition soldiers and mercenaries. Soldiers are generally seen as self sacrificing patriots. Mercenaries as greedy assholes. But, both are being paid and they do the same job in the same war and take orders from the same place.

Ultimately, a lot of this comes down to perspective.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#493

Post by cimmanom »

yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

Why would you even interview in the first place with a company you didn't want to work for?

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#494

Post by warp_factor »

gxigzigxigxi wrote: post #236
deanmoriarty wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, most of this negativity just appears on HN or on channels who have some strong bias (usually business related) against Facebook. All my acquaintances working in tech, which includes people from very wide sociodemographics ranges, consider Facebook an absolutely prestigious employer, with top talent, top challenges, top compensation and top name for building a personal brand. Hell, I interviewed at…

As a Googler, Facebook would certainly be a place I would consider if I wasn’t at google. You’re right, of course, that it is a better than fine employer.

I seriously don't get why Google and Facebook got that brand name. 95% of engineers there are part of the pack and do mainly mindless jobs with very little impact. They are the mot "Sheep-ish" people I know, convinced that working for Google/Facebook give them something to brag at dinner parties.

The top 5 rockstars % (the ones they really want to attract with big money) are the ones taking all decisions.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#495

Post by azangru »

I despise Facebook as a product (not because of any ethical qualms; I just don't like it as a social network).

At the same time, I have enormous respect for Facebook engineers. Facebook gave us, frontend web developers, React, Flow, Flux (and eventually redux), GraphQL, ReasonML, ImmutableJS, DraftJS. They are maintaining Jest now, gradually making it into one of the most pleasant testing frameworks to work with. Don't know about their contributions in other areas, but they must be numerous.

So I can totally understand those who want to work for Facebook. Fuck their social network or their ads delivery platform; their tech looks dope!

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#496

Post by EForEndeavour »

jondubois wrote: post #486
MrTonyD wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make clothes out of plastic in order to recycle. It is a conscious choice they make. (I read the book by the founder.) Patagonia may be the only company I trust.

They probably also contribute to microplastics pollution when the clothes slowly break down during washing. Intentions don't matter anywhere near as much as results. In the real world, you get rewarded only for achieving results, not for trying.

You must be fun in the real world.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#498

Post by criddell »

deminature wrote: post #298
gpm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that pay and working conditions at Facebook are as good as they are precisely because of people feeling like this. They are having to pay a premium to attract engineers as a result of the moral opposition.

Anecdotally, FB's work/life balance is apparently pretty poor compared to other 'tier 1' tech companies. 50-60hrs+ is required to get above 'meets most expectations'.

It feels like Facebook would be a great place to start a unionization effort. Fix the working conditions and use their collective power to fix Facebook's ethical problems.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#499

Post by jondubois »

yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

Everyone wants to make the world a better place... For themselves... At the expense of everyone else.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#500

Post by jkaplowitz »

jrmg wrote: post #400
jkaplowitz wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember right from when I worked there (years ago), the wording is "Organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful." I can definitely see interpretations of that which require direct and open access to the raw data and others which just require universal and useful access to an assistive/suggestive product or service that leverages the data. To be clear, I prefer the first interp…

If I’m interpreting you correctly, both those approaches involve Google housing (owning?) the data. In the early days of Google, I assumed that to organize and make accessible meant to index and link to information presented by others - and not to ‘own’ the data. It saddens me that that interpretation is no longer correct - and perhaps never was?

I wouldn't know what the early interpretation was - I was there in 2006 as an intern plus 2011-2015 as a full-timer.

But the wording is certainly neutral on who houses and owns the data.

I'm guessing that you're right as to the early interpretation, since that's what makes sense for web search.

But other interpretations are the logical thing to think of first for some of their more recent ML-powered assist/suggest products, and the wording of the mission statement leaves product managers and architects/designers free to apply whatever interpretation makes natural sense in context.

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