Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports • Hacker News Board

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#481

Post by existencebox » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 5:16 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #411

existencebox wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that's true. I had a father who pitched college baseball, and tried to instill the same values in me, and it only drove me further away from it. I'd rather we consider the alternate view, and rather than discussing how those who don't like spots are somehow infringing on those who are, select the MANY occasions (as in the parent post of school gym classes) where the opposite is certainly true; those wh…

I agree that I was probably over-generalizing. Interestingly, as an alternative to the "big three," a feature of talking about sports is that it risks no enmity because the taking of sides is assumed to be good natured.

It's interesting you bring that up, since going out drinking with your boss in certain cultures is also a venue in which some degree of "friction" is assumed because "oh we're drinking of course it's all good natured" so that people can be more open; but has a reputation for some of this same "if you don't like it there's something off about you" effect for those who chose not to I was mentioning re: American football.

Not that I can't see the proposed appeal, I just mean to comment on the somewhat unique additional pressures these interactions carry with them.

(Deleted following post due to accidental double reply-click)

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#482

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 5:16 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #411

existencebox wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that's true. I had a father who pitched college baseball, and tried to instill the same values in me, and it only drove me further away from it. I'd rather we consider the alternate view, and rather than discussing how those who don't like spots are somehow infringing on those who are, select the MANY occasions (as in the parent post of school gym classes) where the opposite is certainly true; those wh…

I agree that I was probably over-generalizing. Interestingly, as an alternative to the "big three," a feature of talking about sports is that it risks no enmity because the taking of sides is assumed to be good natured.

[deleted]

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#483

Post by Retra » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 5:16 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #436

Retra wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people want to cheer for academic bookish stuffiness and boo the low-brow jockiness of field games. If that isn't what sports is all about, then what is it about?

This whole idea of "us versus them" is an integral part of a lot of sports culture. That creation of artificial false dichotomies is exactly what sports is about, and exactly what society needs to avoid. The question isn't academics versus athletes, it's inclusiveness versus divisiveness (or, worst case, the question of maximum long-term benefit to society). Both academics and athletes are capable of either, but at l…

I'm not sure society needs to avoid it. And even if it did, I'm not sure individual humans can.

Differentiating between things is a core functionality of the brain, and separating people into groups and categories is necessary to identify which decisions are correct or what actions to take in a given scenario. It becomes degenerate when this kind of divisiveness stops being "friendly competition" and starts being a feedback-loop of antagonistic rationalizations.

Even so, it is hard to be inclusive with people who aren't inclined to be inclusive. It's not something that you can achieve with just intent; it requires a community with the right infrastructure. And it is hard enough for individuals to control their own behavior that controlling community behavior is almost always intractable.

I'm not sure that it is inappropriately cynical to think "I'm just going to pick the side I like and criticize the one I don't. If the other side doesn't understand this and value it, then screw 'em."

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#484

Post by canvia » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #408

canvia wrote: post #314

There are several reasons why I dislike sports. Professional sports are expensive and inefficient forms of entertainment. What is your cost (and opportunity cost) per hour for sports? Compared to films, books, video games, or board games you are burning money/time on a completely passive experience. When was the last time you learned something about yourself or others while watching a sporting event? Do they cause yo…

I'm curious, does supposed high quality beer not lead to drinking and driving? As far as the us vs then situation, what do you call board games? Do you play board ganes that do not allow competition, same eSports? Why do you think you can learn more about people from video games than sports? I'm not sure, this just seems like a fancy way of saying, in an elitist way, that you don't get into sports because other peopl…

It does, but the producers of that product do not encourage the practice with (often sexually) manipulative television marketing.

There are many excellent cooperative board games such as Pandemic and Forbidden Island. Video games like Minecraft and Portal can be played cooperatively as well.

I am not into professional sports because they are inferior to other forms of entertainment. I have watched and understand pretty much every type of sport. My favorite is UFC. I also enjoy hockey but I would rather play NHL 94 than watch it on TV or in person.

Another thing I don't like is how little innovation there is in professional sports. It seems like I could watch an hour of highlights at the end of the year and see anything unique that might have happened. These games have been played for decades. With Twitch there are constantly new games with new mechanics and strategies and it's exciting to watch people figure out optimal play methods and new techniques.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#485

Post by ZenoArrow » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 5:49 PM UTC

ansible wrote: post #472

ZenoArrow wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about football in the American sense or to describe soccer? I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in the UK football hooligans are a dying breed. There have been a few Hollywood films made about UK football hooligans, but it's more about the situation at it was in the 70's/80's. I'm not an expert on it, but it strikes me it was born out of boredom. You'd travel to an away match, see some goalle…

Are you talking about football in the American sense or to describe soccer? No, I was asking if dragonwriter was referring to football (soccer) hooligans from the UK or other countries. Argentina guys in particular seem to get pretty rowdy, and there have been murders too. But there isn't any sort of hooliganism where I am, I was just trying to figure out what dragonwriter was talking about with regards to pro sports…

Okay then, in that case I'd say sports aren't the focus for conflict, they're a convenient excuse for it. Fighting is always its own domain, other surrounding factors are just window dressing.

That's my opinion anyhow.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#486

Post by ZenoArrow » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 5:51 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #283

ansible wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love sports, but every time I watch or support them I feel like I'm destroying civil society and undermining democracy and helping to destroy the last vestiges of effective public education. I'm not a big sports fan, but pro sports does serve a purpose. Sports in general is ritualized hunting / warfare. A civilized and less brutal version of war, but the roots are clear. The skills used are the same as our ancestor…

> Sports in general is ritualized hunting / warfare. Ritualized, sure. Hunting / warfare? Depends on the sport. Dancesport is a thing, and its assuredly not ritualized hunting / warfare. > Sports is highly preferable to the small-scale skirmishes that frequently occurred in centuries past. Sports is -- and has been for quite some time -- a frequent focus of the small-scale skirmishes much the same as those you paint…

What's dancesport? I've never heard of it.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#487

Post by lotharbot » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 6:54 PM UTC

wtbob wrote: post #456

lotharbot wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he is saying in effect "What you love is obtuse and low brow" More than that, he is in effect saying "there is no depth to this thing" (which he hasn't studied in depth enough to know). Which is both rude and arrogant. It's one thing to say you don't understand a thing and aren't interested in it, and then politely discuss things you are (mutually) interested in. It's quite another to distill something you don't un…

> More than that, he is in effect saying "there is no depth to this thing" More precisely, 'there is no depth that is emotionally or intellectually relevant to me.' I'm sure there is lots of depth to the architecture Robin Hood Gardens, but it still should be levelled. Likewise, while you're quite right that there's lots of depth to professional sports, I don't think that means that anyone should care, or be expected…

> "More precisely, 'there is no depth that is emotionally or intellectually relevant to me.'"

That's less precise.

By caricaturing the sport, he's not merely expressing that he doesn't care about the depth, he's implying it doesn't exist and that other people who care about the sport care about something pointless. It's an expression of contempt not just for the sport, but for their judgment. Like "the depth this sport may have shouldn't be relevant to anyone".

It's like if someone caricatures computer programming as "just typing" and therefore unimportant -- they're not merely saying that they don't care about pointers and function calls, they're implying that there's something wrong with people who do care about those things.

> "what about the contempt which sports-lovers have for sports-haters?"

I'm glad you prefaced this with "contempt is bad" so it didn't appear to be a tu quoque fallacy.

And you are correct, that form of contempt is also harmful. And the form of contempt sometimes displayed by groups of sports fans for other groups of sports fans is harmful. I don't think there's a lot of need to analyze the proposition "children are sometimes immature" -- I know I dished out and took my fair share of insults about everything from intelligence to looks to athleticism to choice of entertainment.

But for adults, we should rise above. If a friend is genuinely passionate about something, whether it's programming or sports or stamps or butterflies, figure out a way to be supportive rather than dismissive -- listen a little bit, ask questions, and then move on. And when you move the conversation to areas of shared interest, do it in a way that respects your friend's interest in whatever it is you don't particularly care for.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#488

Post by dinkumthinkum » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 7:38 PM UTC

murbard2 wrote: post #464

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think sports are the reason we have stupid policies then I think something is stupid and it's not sports. These supposed intellectuals on HackerNews are split between socialism and anarcho-capitalism so it can be hard to really say which of these policies are objectively stupid let alone blame sports of all things for them.

No, tribalism is the reason we have both sports and stupid policies. The hope is that by condemning sports one can make a more general point about tribalism.

Extraordinary claims. It is fashionable for hipsters to income their god as an explanation for all that is wrong "tribalism". Is any evidence required? Honestly I think the idea thAr sports is tribalism is a cop out for the intellectual lazy. You have to think at a higher intellectual than to stupid policies come from sports. As I pointed out, the alleged intellectuals on HN can't agree between socialism and anarcho-capitalism so I think "stupid policy" is a bit loaded. What policy and what was its path of origination, I guess you would say sports every time with a lot if hand waving. :)

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#489

Post by sanderjd » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 8:00 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #393

sanderjd wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to talk to people about things that interest them but not yourself is a very important skill to cultivate. The intersection of yourself with "people worth knowing and talking to" is bigger than the intersection of yourself with "people who share your interests".

I have the ability to talk to people about lots of things. I talk to all kinds of people about all kinds of things. If someone only has one interest which is sports, I can politely demur or listen depending on whether I have the time, exactly the same as if I met someone who wants to monologue at me about locomotives for 6 hours. But I'm not working in sales, and I'm sure as hell not obligated to anyone to fake enthu…

I would (and do) give the same "advice" about being able to enjoy talking to people with non-mainstream interests. People in general aren't great at being interested in people who aren't interested in the same things as them. Nerds are better at it than most, because nerd-dom is largely defined by having wide swaths of interests, but sports seems to be a widespread blind spot, possibly because of resentment at having their own interests scoffed at by many sports fans (at least I'm pretty sure that's where my past anti-sports feelings came from).

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#490

Post by hnnewguy » Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 8:02 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #39

aaron-lebo wrote: post #19

I think professional sports are the closest we have to real-life dramas, tragedies, or even comedies, and they have profound life lessons. I am a lifelong Dallas Cowboys fan. I grew up when they were a dynasty in the 90s, and at the time it seemed like going to the Super Bowl is something they were supposed to do every year. I cried after some tough losses. Sometimes I get into other local teams when they are doing w…

> I think professional sports are the closest we have to real-life dramas, tragedies, or even comedies, and they have profound life lessons. I think anyone who thinks this is spending too much attention on professional sports and not enough on real life: because there is plenty of actual real-life drama, tragedy, and comedy; professional sports are not the "closest we have" to those things (though there is some of al…

You don't like sports. We get it. Why do you care so much that others do?