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Hetzner Price Adjustment

docs.hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#481

Post by tptacek »

jrflowers wrote: post #461
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't make that exact claim, and I also spoke of future tense "will be". Obviously, the budget prices just raised. You can see some anecdotes here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48545965 ...which I will throw in my anecdote to, that I will have to shut down some hobby servers I was hosting because I can't afford to host them at these prices. Not right away because the current price is grandfathered in, but…

tptacek is arguing that he, specifically, does not care about the Hetzner price increase. Anything outside of that (eg the cost spike in consumer computing https://www.trendforce.com/presscenter/news/20260310-12959.h... ) isn’t relevant. There’s no point in making an argument about the material reality of things here because he’s objectively right that he, personally, does not care about it.

I'm thinking more about, like, my next door neighbors, who also don't care that my interlocutor had to turn off one of their hobby servers. That's OK, though, because they also think a Macbook Neo would cost $119 without the Apple tax, so I think we're at an impasse.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#482

Post by lovich »

includenotfound wrote: post #466
conception wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas at least disagrees with you - https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG... Do you have statistics to back your assertions that disagree with this data?

I do in fact. Germany: https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Pol... Total N = ~2.2M Germans = ~1.2M (~58%) Non-Germans = ~900k (~42%) Population: Germans ~71M (~85%), foreign ~12M (~15%) Per-capita, non-Germans show up ~2.8x more. Approximate rates: Germans: ~1,786 per 100k (baseline) All Non-Germans: ~7,365 per 100k (~4.1× German rate) Syria: ~12,900 per 100k (~7.2×) Afghanistan: ~12,300 per 100k…

how does claiming that the US has strong arguments to support your point, but discussing them would derail the thread, when the person you were replying to was showing data from Texas, a US state?

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#483

Post by fnordpiglet »

whatever1 wrote: post #257
originalvichy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the real risk after the slow death of personal computing. Even internet resources like servers will be hoarded by the hyperscalers that are the only ones who can afford to order years of compute hardware in advance. I’ve already started buying cheap old business PCs just in case I’ll ever need to have simple barebones machines to run things on.

If the hyperscalers demand is persistent, more hardware players will notice and will want a piece of the pie. You already see non traditional players entering. But what you see is a cautious strategy from the existing players. They are hedging against a bubble. They don’t want to pour today tens of billions of dollars in capacity that they will have to sell it to a deflated market

I’ll wager $5 semiconductor companies are issuing stock to fund capital investment because that’s what you do when these things happen.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#484

Post by thelastgallon »

ryandvm wrote: post #280

[flagged]

The upsides are going to be everyone freed up from their menial corporate jobs so they can be a trader/'investor' and buy nft, crypto, SpaceX, AI stocks. Everyone becomes a millionaire on speculation. There will be Universities offering courses and degrees. Influencers selling their own courses.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#485

Post by lovich »

tptacek wrote: post #440
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say a word about "our profession". Where is the upside for humanity ? Everyone is bearing the cost of hardware going up 4x. Anyone purchasing a computer feels the downside of components costing 4x. Anyone who likes interesting things being hosted on the internet feels the downside of small-scale projects shutting down when they can no longer be sustainably hosted at 4x cost. Anyone who likes interesting c…

I read "fewer jobs" and "massive increase in hardware cost" as issues principally pertaining to programmers. I can't tell if any of the rest of this argument applies if we stipulate that's what I'm talking about.

its anecdotal, but the non software engineers in my social circles wont even consider trying games with rumors of breaking hardware like Jumpspace with GPU bricking[1] because they feel they can no longer afford to replace the hardware in their gaming rigs. I have had several people independently complain to me that they are locked out of the hobby whenever their GPU or ram dies.

[1]https://steamcommunity.com/app/1757300/discussions/0/5917831...

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#486

Post by pdimitar »

azan_ wrote: post #376
pdimitar wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is likely mostly nullified by the consumerism hellscape that's being forced on us i.e. stuff lasts less time and we have to buy more often. Still a win but not as big as many are selling it.

> This is likely mostly nullified by the consumerism hellscape that's being forced on us i.e. stuff lasts less time and we have to buy more often. Actually good quality stuff is more affordable than ever. People just don't want to pay for quality and things that last.

I live in country where shrewd salesmen know that people like me would pay extra for quality so they sell me crappy quality still, just for 3x the price.

So yeah, I started resorting to asking acquaintances with big families and also LLMs to desperately try to separate the wheat from the chaff.

It's not impossible and it's indeed doable, just not very quick.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#487

Post by menno-sh »

includenotfound wrote: post #466
conception wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas at least disagrees with you - https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG... Do you have statistics to back your assertions that disagree with this data?

I do in fact. Germany: https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Pol... Total N = ~2.2M Germans = ~1.2M (~58%) Non-Germans = ~900k (~42%) Population: Germans ~71M (~85%), foreign ~12M (~15%) Per-capita, non-Germans show up ~2.8x more. Approximate rates: Germans: ~1,786 per 100k (baseline) All Non-Germans: ~7,365 per 100k (~4.1× German rate) Syria: ~12,900 per 100k (~7.2×) Afghanistan: ~12,300 per 100k…

This is ignoring a lot of variables, the most obvious of which is that crime rates for people in economically disadvantaged positions are unsurprisingly higher.

I was going to explain some of the others when I realized that in the context of this thread — namely comparing Europe to China in terms of ethnic diversity — these misleading statistics smell like a call to return to a ‘monocultural’ Europe. My grandparents have had pretty bad experiences with Germany’s last attempt at that; I therefore want to stress how dangerous it can be to present statistics like these as ‘neutral’.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#488

Post by pdimitar »

ericd wrote: post #392
pdimitar wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is likely mostly nullified by the consumerism hellscape that's being forced on us i.e. stuff lasts less time and we have to buy more often. Still a win but not as big as many are selling it.

It's not forced on you. If you do a minimal amount of research (which LLMs are very helpful with!), you can still find durable stuff. A Speed Queen washer is still built like a tank. It's just that the less durable stuff is absurdly cheap now. /r/BuyItForLife/ is a decent place to hang out if you care.

If you really like to argue semantics, OK, nobody put a gun to my head and said: "Here, buy this washing machine that will break just two weeks after its meagre two years of warranty, or I blow your head off!". Fine. But it is, shall we say, strongly encouraged with marketing and it makes sure those less quality products are always the most prominent. Happened to me and many acquaintances with extended families.

Thanks for the Reddit link. I'll absolutely use it.

And I disagree it's a minimal amount of research but maybe I'll come around. There are things that were trivial to research indeed, some -- very hard.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#489

Post by ethbr1 »

ksec wrote: post #430
ryandvm wrote: post #280

[flagged]

>(world's first trillionaire anyone?) With some work on crypto many people could be a trillionaire on paper. Whether it translate to actual wealth and liquidity is another matter. We are talking about P/E of 300 / P/S of close to 100 for Tesla and SpaceX. >When exactly are the upsides going to hit? A lot of people take Moore's law, or technology improvement as granted. It will always come. It will always become cheap…

> We are basically saying we have Trillions to spend over the next 5 years. Give me everything you have got.

We are saying AI companies have trillions to spend over the next 5 years on infrastructure, based on servicing a hypothetical TAM that includes large amounts of workers who it also expects to displace.

One of these two things can be true.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#490

Post by id00 »

kopirgan wrote: post #476
id00 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could barely exist in Shanghai when I visited it for a week earlier this year. The surveillance is suffocating. With all my disdain towards the way the West is going, the level of control and freedom can't be compared. Especially if you've ever experienced freedom taken from you (unfortunately, I have).

Can you explain? What sort of surveillance that affects a casual visitor?!

Here is my experience in the center of Shanghai, very subjective of course:

- I can't pay with my credit/debit cards there so I need to get their alipay pay app. There is KYC required to upload my government ID.

- We stayed in a short rent apartment, so we had to temporarily register with government. Of course that requires uploading photos of me, my kids, and all our IDs

- with a lot of apps banned there, you are essentially told which one you have to use

- you need VPN

- you go outside, there is always a police or some security in booth watching you. Of course cameras are also everywhere.

- fences everywhere - don't walk on the nice lawn there, don't sit here, don't stand there. And the moment your kids do - the security / police will come

- lack of public spaces (we couldn't find a playground, the one we eventually found was behind the fence) make the environment hostile and it almost feels like they don't want you outside

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