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Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

ecopv-eu.com

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Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#481

Post by in_cahoots »

eqvinox wrote: post #433
wmf wrote: post #7

There's an exception for batteries that "retain at least 80% of its original capacity after 1,000 charge cycles." Coincidentally, iPhones and probably other flagships already qualify for this exception.

JFTR: achieving that capacity retention is a question of charge settings. Pretty much any Lithium ion battery can achieve it if you don't charge it to the absolute maximum possible each time. It's quite simple. While you can charge a "good old" Lithium ion battery to 4.2V, you already start getting slow degradation at that point. Charging it to 4.1V or 4.05V massively reduces that. But at the same time, those 100 or…

If the bill defines a charge cycle as 100->0->100 then the restriction should be more meaningful right? Manufacturers would have to ship a larger battery and cap its capacity to get the same lifespan.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#482

Post by JumpCrisscross »

infecto wrote: post #202
danaw wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

based on many comments in this thread your statement is not accurate. for example my iphone 15 pro is at 83% with 654 cycles. clearly it will drop below 80% in less than 1000 cycles

What makes it not accurate? With the 15, apple was already making claims about 80% at 1000 cycles. Battery degradation has too many variables for you to make your claim and even in perfect situation, it’s not a linear degradation by cycle. My 17 is at 100 cycles with 100% health. Back to my original claim. Most manufacturers already meet the exception. Some of the low end garbage phones may not but it’s unclear how m…

> What makes it not accurate?

You’ve concluded because you don’t have the data nobody has the data and thus the legislation “is a waste of money.”

Your ask for data is warranted. Your premature conclusion is inaccurate, or at least unsustained.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#483

Post by robocat »

GuB-42 wrote: post #352
capitainenemo wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I've had my XCover 6 for 3½ years now. I've dropped it many times, on hard surfaces (like outdoor concrete/brick). I've undoubtedly been fortunate. the plastic has gouges in it. there's (small) scratches on the screen (some from my keys), but the screen is not cracked. When it is dropped the back and battery pop off, which I think helps dissipate the forces. BTW, for anyone trying to extend their phone life,…

> I strongly recommend those magnetic USB connectors Note that these connectors are in violation of USB standard and potentially harmful as they expose the pins in an unintended way. For instance, notice that all the connection on the USB port are not all the same length, it is a form of protection, to make sure the power lines are well connected before the data lines make contact. With magnetic USB connectors, you l…

> notice that all the connection on the USB port are not all the same length, it is a form of protection

This was noticeable on USB-A connectors when you look closely where the two outside pins were slightly longer than the two inside pins: the Make-First, Break-Last (MFBL) principle. You can also see the same thing on SATA edge connector pins.

The ~2015 Macbook Magsafe 2 connector had 2 slightly longer spring pins (two pins furthest from centre). See https://ir.ozone.ru/s3/multimedia-3/wc500/6020365815.jpg

Take care googling for photos because many are CAD mockups misinform (because they are drawn pretty incorrectly and show no physical length differences).

USB-C does have longer pins for the ground, and the CC (configuration channel) connects last. A USB-C host doesn't deliver power until it is negotiated using the CC pins.

So USB-C via a "magsafe" connector is safe.

But maybe look for the two outermost pins to be longer.

You mention ESD which could be riskier since charged fingers or worse could touch contacts directly. However the lip around the contacts is usually grounded so any spark should be grounded first. I would also assume modern electronics are well protected against ESD (nobody wants occasional undiagnosable failures leading to refunds). Sure that stuff from earlier this century wasn't so well protected. YMMV if you are a sparky person in a sparky environs: weigh the downside costs of different approaches appropriately.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#484

Post by wolvoleo »

capitainenemo wrote: post #248
badsectoracula wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it is from 2022, meaning no OS upgrades. I think the next mandatory laws EU should pass is that manufacturers should either allow people to upgrade/replace the OS by themselves or provide mandatory upgrades for the next decade (i don't care how the manufacturers handle it, that's up to them, but the easiest way out of such a law is to allow people upgrade/replace the OS by themselves).

So, they have an XCover 7 now - with similar specs. Also, they committed to a rather long support cycle for the xcover6 (5 years I think?) - I have one and it is still going strong. I've replaced the battery twice - not because I desperately needed to, but... why not. They are cheap, and I use the older ones still as backup battery packs since they are fast to swap in.

Yeah they are really meant for businesses. Frontline workers, factory floors.

This is what we use them for and they do stand up to the abuse. Of course people treat them very badly as it's not something they paid for. Really long support too.

They're not good in terms of specs for the price but that is not what these phones are about.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#486

Post by dml2135 »

boxed wrote: post #307
dml2135 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> getting too slow to be usable Not sure what the behavior is like on Android, but iOS will throttle performance if your battery has degraded past a certain state. So I'm sure that there are many iPhone users that are replacing their phone due to what they think is poor performance related to the age of the phone, when it's really due to the age of the battery.

I think the iPhone will warn you if your battery performance is significantly degraded?

It's buried in the battery settings, so not something you will find unless you are looking for it, IIRC.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#487

Post by charcircuit »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #117
matchbok3 wrote: post #53

While sounding nice in theory, these sorts of regulations will certainly curtail innovation while providing very, very little value elsewhere. If people wanted removable batteries in their phones, they would buy them a lot. They don't.

> If people wanted removable batteries in their phones, they would buy them a lot. They don't. This argument gets thrown about every time companies make anti-consumer changes, and it completely ignores the information asymmetry and other dynamics at play. When I go to the store to buy a new phone, where does it list on the box how repairable the device is? Where does it show how expensive the repair will be? If I'm l…

If you go and buy an iPhone they advertise how expensive AppleCare is.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#488

Post by nine_k »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #390
everdrive wrote: post #119

The number of people worried about a slightly thicker phone are absolutely baffling to me. I honestly think there is no hope for us broadly. Normally I'd say that people cannot deal with minor inconveniences -- but this does not even register as an inconvenience. From my view, this is a _perceived_ downgrade in luxury status. Not even a real downgrade in luxury status -- and not a downgrade in convenience whatsoever.

How tf did phones even become a "luxury" status symbol? They're just portable computers that also happen to be covered in nasty germs. People are freaking weird.

Anything can become a status symbol; humans love showing off. An expensive high-tech piece that's thinnest in the world? Yes please. Shoes or neckties seem to be even less probable status symbols, but.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#489

Post by nine_k »

everdrive wrote: post #119

The number of people worried about a slightly thicker phone are absolutely baffling to me. I honestly think there is no hope for us broadly. Normally I'd say that people cannot deal with minor inconveniences -- but this does not even register as an inconvenience. From my view, this is a _perceived_ downgrade in luxury status. Not even a real downgrade in luxury status -- and not a downgrade in convenience whatsoever.

I'd like a thicker, smaller phone (like 5") which can actually be operated with one hand. Ideally it should also be durable enough to not need a protective cover.

(My Kyocera Duraforce came close; too bad it was locked to AT&T.)

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#490

Post by CrimsonRain »

torginus wrote: post #300
GuB-42 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also a rugged phone. So if you want to make a fair comparison with an iPhone, you have to put the iPhone in a case, resulting in a similar weight and thickness.

Yeah the first thing everyone does with their new iPhones is put them in a case - at that point thinness doesn't matter, Id argue Apple counts on it, as their phones are awkward to hold otherwise. Replaceable covers used to serve the same purpose.

Using iphones without a case since 2017. Thinness definitely matters and there's nothing awkward about holding it.
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