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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#481

Post by simplyluke »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

> It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated.

It wouldn't be hacker news without a comment like this. I haven't personally worked in finance, but I've had a lot of friends do it.

It _absolutely_ is complicated. It's not too complicated for a nation or the EU to do it in house, but no, there's a bit more there than "Claude make me a ledger"

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#482

Post by kubanczyk »

tlogan wrote: post #344
Beretta_Vexee wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wero is just one of many systems available that allow individuals to make transfers easily and almost instantly. There is also Bizum in Iberia and Blik in Poland. These instant phone-to-phone transfers are very popular, especially among young people who rarely use cash. Wero itself was launched by large banking networks because they had no solution to compete with neo-banks such as Lydia, which was a pioneer in this…

I think the misunderstanding is that when I say “credit card,” I do not mean a physical card. I have not used a physical card in years. In the US, when people hear Mastercard or Visa, they usually associate that with a credit card (virtual or physical), meaning the money is not taken directly from your bank account. You pay the balance later, which gives you credit and strong dispute protections. Debit or ATM cards a…

> In the US, when people hear Mastercard or Visa, they usually associate that with a credit card (virtual or physical), meaning the money is not taken directly from your bank account. You pay the balance later, which gives you credit and strong dispute protections.

Europeans use these dispute protections much less, so Visa/Mastercard are mostly seen as expensive pass-throughs.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#483

Post by [deleted] »

alibarber wrote: post #336
rcbdev wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is often completely out of step with consumer protections in the EU.

Is it? Can’t say I’ve really noticed it. In fact just today I read this article in my EU country that sounds almost identical to what this comment describes: https://yle.fi/a/74-20209419 “ If, for example, the payment was made by credit card and the product has not been delivered, the consumer can contact their credit card company directly and request a refund. Credit card firms can usually refund the money quickly,…

[deleted]

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#484

Post by warkdarrior »

overfeed wrote: post #151
eastbayjake wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

> credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk it will not be repaid, and that risk ends up reflected in processing fees Neither Visa nor MasterCard are loaning customers their money. It's the European banks that hold the bulk of the risk for European credit card transactions.

> Neither Visa nor MasterCard are loaning customers their money. It's the European banks that hold the bulk of the risk for European credit card transactions.

And the bulk of the fees from credit card transactions goes to the bank(s) since they hold the risk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee#:~:text=The%20...

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#485

Post by h4kunamata »

2026 is really the year of USA going down in history. US dollar is collapsing, its stock is having a hard time, Europe is ditching US techs like Google and Microsoft and now this.

Visa/Mastercard are the biggest evil. Why do you think Trump got pissed at Brazil having its own payment system without Visa/Mastercard network deleting billions in revenue from Visa/Mastercard

The problem major problem is already mentioned: Each EU country wanna have their own independent system. Nothing prevent the countries from doing that but it must talk within the same payment network so people in the Netherlands can buy from Italy using their own payment system.

Own payment system is different than payment network :)

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#486

Post by carlosjobim »

kubanczyk wrote: post #473
carlosjobim wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Far less fraud as a result. Who returns your money to you if you purchased something on mail order with this, and it turned out to be fraud?

Third party escrow, if you explicitly used one. There's no free lunch.

And now you have invented Visa and MasterCard again.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#487

Post by supertrope »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #155
mentalgear wrote: post #35

Would be nice of the EU to provide a digital payment service quasi free of charge - without commercial provider's typical predatory fees and other costs. And don't counter with "privacy" .. it's not like all the American companies already have to provide backend access to their data to the NSA and other 3 letter agencies.

The problem with these is always who pays for fraud. With credit cards, they actually claw that money back from the merchant, and then if the merchant can't pay they just eat it themselves. So the merchant has to work in fraud rates into their pricing, and the credit card company has to work in fraud rates that the merchant can't cover into their rates. It always seemed toxic it to me that the merchants are the one's…

In theory merchants can notice some fraud signs so shifting fraud losses onto them gives an incentive to take action on those signs. In practice banks have a better overall view of fraud and this is just externalizing bank fraud losses onto stores.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#488

Post by kubanczyk »

jagermo wrote: post #238

Wero is fun to use, but there so many features missing. The terminals, for example. Or, an easy way for vendors or car rental agencies to block a set amount when you rent a car. However, all of these things can be built and I hope Wero gets the time to grow into a full alternative to US-based payment systems. Not because I want them to fail, but because this market can use a bit of competition and new ideas.

Yes, actually car rentals is the only reason why I still keep a credit card. I vastly prefer that to any kind of insurance.

Probably merchants like Netflix would also love recurring payment functionality. Let's just hope they'll make them cancelable this yime.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#489

Post by carlosjobim »

jimnotgym wrote: post #283
carlosjobim wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is Europe in this sense? In the Europe I know, every small business has accepted cards for decades. The exception if there are some children selling strawberries to tourists. As for your second paragraph, you seem to be dreaming. Americans are some of the best tourists to deal with, and anybody who works in the tourism sector is happy to receive them.

I haven't been to every country in Europe, it is true. A few years ago I shut down a website in Poland for someone because people didn't want to pay with cards, they wanted COD. My colleague took a train regularly in the Netherlands a few years back that was cash only. Dutch websites also have to offer whatever the Dutch payment provider is (I forget). Another colleague in rural Spain found that the price they were c…

Who is everyone else that has a problem here? Since tourists almost exclusively deal with people who work with tourism. Villagers annoyed that American tourists are swimming in their lake? Street scum irritated that American tourists are taking up space on the sidewalk? When I was young I used to hear anti-tourism sentiment sometimes, usually from the most base people. Everybody else was busy working or living their life, so they didn't have time to loiter in touristic places at touristic times. Unless they worked there.

As for your run-ins with card hostile businesses and people, you have the option to make your purchases with businesses who accept cards. Most customers choose that options, because cards offer the best protection and convenience for the customer. To the tune of the endless teeth grinding of some small business owners who think that their low profits are to blame on a tiny merchant fee.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#490

Post by gpderetta »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #461
drnick1 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "consumer protections" of the EU basically amount to communism (i.e., state interference in private matters). So no, that's not a thing the U.K. should emulate.

Well the average bloke inside the EU is much better off than those in the UK. So much success for your policies https://www.ft.com/content/837a7b40-f534-11e3-91a8-00144feab...

I somehow doubt that parent is British or has any clue about life in UK.
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