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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#431

Post by xyzzy123 »

miki123211 wrote: post #411
xyzzy123 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An important security measure for who, though? The servers at the bank should "never trust the client" in case the attestation is bypassed or compromised, which is always a risk at scale. If it's an important safety measure _for me_, shouldn't I get to decide whether I need it based on context? I think it's fair for banks to apply different risk scores based on the signals they have available (including attestation s…

It's an anti-brute-force mechanism. It's not for you, it's for all the other accounts that an unattested phone (or a bot posing as an unattested phone that just stole somebody's credentials via some 0-day data exfiltration exploit) may be trying to access. Sure, banks could probably build a mechanism that lets some users opt out of this, just as they could add a Klingon localization to their apps. There just isn't en…

If you work on mobile apps you will notice that full attestation is too slow to put in the login path. [This might be better than it used to be, now in 2026].

I don't think a good security engineer would rely on atty as "front line" anti brute force control since bypasses are not that rare. But yeah you might incorporate it into the flow. Just like captchas, rate limiting, fingerprints etc and all the other controls you need for web, anyway.

I know I'm quibbling. My concern is that future where banks can "trust the client" is a future of total big tech capture of computing platforms, and I know banks and government don't really care, but I do.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#432

Post by drnick1 »

rcbdev wrote: post #209
gpderetta wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In UK, consumer protection for Credit Cards is guaranteed by law (Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act), but not for Debit Cards (that's contractual).

The UK is often completely out of step with consumer protections in the EU.

The "consumer protections" of the EU basically amount to communism (i.e., state interference in private matters). So no, that's not a thing the U.K. should emulate.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#433

Post by alistairSH »

tremon wrote: post #430
phoronixrly wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys use the debit card linked to your primary bank account??? There's been virtual cards for online shopping for 10+ years now. They're meant to be linked to an empty or low amount bank account. Now with Revolut you can schedule auto top-up to keep this low amount up to date. Not to mention the per-purchase (online/in-person) limits, mandatory PIN entry, and daily maximums...

We don't use any cards for online shopping, what do you mean? In most European countries online shopping uses a payment API that takes you to your bank's payment portal where you can review the transaction amount before confirming. It's no longer the 20th century, we're not handing out any card details to online merchants.

Banking in the US feels like it's stuck in the 90s. Heck, half the time, it's not even chip+PIN, it's chip+signature (which is a relativelyrecent change from carbon copy or swipe and signature).

I've never had a web shop use an API to deduct from my bank account - the closest thing is PayPal, which as far as I can tell is basically ACH under the covers, just though an intermediary. Pretty sure more Americans use their CC or debit card for online shopping.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#434

Post by roenxi »

joe_mamba wrote: post #375
Archelaos wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The odds are very low. It all depents on the people. So far, the European citizens are very privacy senstive. The European institutions are characterized by a huge devision of power. There is no chance that European instutitions can impose their will against a considerable majority of people. If people turn away from liberal democracy, that's another matter. But then everything is lost anyway.

[flagged]

> Sure is convenient that we keep having more and more crisis and boogiemen that governments can leverage...

The problem with this phrasing is it makes it sound hyperbolic, but it is important to remember the world is large and there are always, in a literal and normal sense, multiple major crises going on at any moment.

People who don't pay much attention to politics sometimes get confused about why crises elevated by the corporate media get ignored. A big answer is becuase they are elevated for political reasons, usually the crisis is fairly routine in absolute terms.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#435

Post by GuestFAUniverse »

severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

Logical next steps: 1. European app store that has to run on Android/iPhone 2. European phone (platform) -- maybe as a joint venture of different European players / not a single company.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#436

Post by joe_mamba »

roenxi wrote: post #434
joe_mamba wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Sure is convenient that we keep having more and more crisis and boogiemen that governments can leverage... The problem with this phrasing is it makes it sound hyperbolic, but it is important to remember the world is large and there are always, in a literal and normal sense, multiple major crises going on at any moment. People who don't pay much attention to politics sometimes get confused about why crises elevated…

>there are always, in a literal and normal sense, multiple major crises going on at any moment

True, but my point I wanted to draw attention to, is HOW these crisis are handled now, not that there's many of them.

Every crisis now seems to be exclusively used as a vehicle to justify taking away just a little bit more of your freedom and anonymity, or implement more fiscal policies that will leave you footing the bill but just so happens it will be enriching the wealthy as a side effect.

Because such policies shoved out the door in times of crisis, don't pass through the lengthy public debates and scrutiny regular policies have to go through, so it's the perfect opportunity to sneak and fast-track some nefarious stuff in.

I'm not that old yet, but I don't feel like this backdoor was misused to this extent in the past, like pre-2008 I mean (except 9/11 of course). It definitely feels like politicians have gooten of taste and are abusing this exploit now more with every little opportunity.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#437

Post by axus »

linkregister wrote: post #409
digiown wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all the same. How is suing Google any different, if you instead get debanked by Google for violating their "terms"? The only solution is untraceable, permissionless money, like Monero. Why do you think governments try so hard to ban it?

Being de-Googled is a hardship, though there are replacements for virtually all its services. I acknowledge you are well informed on this topic. It is not unreasonable for governments to pursue avenues for laundering money. I recognize that you likely don't believe governments should prosecute money laundering, but that view is not aligned with the majority of citizens in your country.

After a fair trial and appeals process, right?

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#438

Post by grishka »

fhdkweig wrote: post #233
severino wrote: post #135

Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…

> Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. I would also hope so, that is the entire point. The reason they are scrambling right now is because Starlink just shut off all of Russia. Because Starlink was so cheap and easy (and stable for the last 4 years of the war), a lot of people in Russia stopped using any other form of internet access. And while all of Europe is happy…

> a lot of people in Russia stopped using any other form of internet access

What you're saying is just plain false. No one has ever used Starlink in Russia. It doesn't even work here. It never did. Russian troops were using Starlink on Ukrainian territory, that's what was shut off.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#439

Post by notrealyme123 »

miohtama wrote: post #386
Archelaos wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The odds are very low. It all depents on the people. So far, the European citizens are very privacy senstive. The European institutions are characterized by a huge devision of power. There is no chance that European instutitions can impose their will against a considerable majority of people. If people turn away from liberal democracy, that's another matter. But then everything is lost anyway.

> There is no chance that European instutitions can impose their will against a considerable majority of people The EU commission just passed chat control to have government mandated software in every phone

If you want to over simplify at least do it right.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#440

Post by notrealyme123 »

Saline9515 wrote: post #404
maigret wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually European integration the last 30 years has been pretty remarkable. In the past, not even electric plugs were compatible. But the EU is not a country. A lot of the inefficiencies are actually features sought by key members to protect their own local incumbents.

Your best example of European integration is electric plugs?

How about tap water has to be drinkable in every EU country
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