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Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

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Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#481

Post by tim333 »

the_gipsy wrote: post #414
pfdietz wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some would dispute the "downward" part there. Not trying to be the world's policeman would allow tremendous downsizing of the military and its associated expense. Decoupling and isolation is a very rational response if nuclear proliferation is going to accelerate, in order to avoid having entangling alliances pull the country into a nuclear equivalent of the first World War.

"World's policeman", that's what you tell little kids America was doing. America didn't invade Iraq or Afghanistan for world peace. There were strong economic and strategic motives behind those invasions. At the same time, soft power is also vanishing.

"strong economic and strategic motive" behind Afghanistan? They did it to get Bin Laden basically.

America are like a slightly corrupt and violent world police.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#482

Post by nikanj »

Four-year anything is not seen as worth the cost, when every platform firehoses you with stories about people who became billionaires in 7 months.

Being long degeneracy [1] is the number one strategy right now

1: https://oldcoinbad.com/p/long-degeneracy

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#483

Post by tim333 »

watwut wrote: post #459
bildung wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia will conquer Ukraine, any other prediction at this point is absurd. Are you sure? They are advancing, sure, put look what they paid for to achieve this: 300k dead, 700k wounded, depletion of their souvereign wealth fund, 20%+ inflation, lower oil production and so on.

Unfortunately, yes. USA is doing everything but openly support Russia at this point too. It could have been different if Ukraine got proper support, but instead it is being undermined. Europe could do more, but at least most states dont play for Russia (Hungary and Slovakia excepted).

I think we may be at peak Trump though which will limit his power to bail out Putin. The midterms won't go well, the Epstein stuff is embarrassing, the Republicans are starting to get unruly.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#484

Post by tovej »

qcnguy wrote: post #440
tovej wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is aggressively neoliberal or liberal-conservative, and that is the reason universities have begun to be more expensive. It's related to austerity, privatization, the aggressive revision of tax codes, and New Public Management. The left has not been popular in the EU since the 70s, which is why this development has gotten increasingly aggresive in the last few decades. You cannot seriously suggest that the EU…

> where public funding programs for research has begun to be funneled to startups instead of research groups. It is darkly amusing that in one post you claim "the left has not been popular since the 70s" whilst admitting that the EU is centrally planning new companies. That's very much the sort of thing the left did in the 1970s. > You cannot seriously suggest that the EU has moved left in any meaningful way ... the…

Centrally planning? My guy, the EU is not founding companies, it is giving existing companies subsidies. The profits of those companies will not be public, they are private.

Nationalization and regularization are both on the decline. The opposite has happened: privatization of state monopolies and deregulatization.

I also think it's hilarious that you think a) the EU is feminist, and b) that feminism is leftist. What you are describing is liberalism, a right wing political position.

And even the liberal right is losing ground to the conservative right. The EU commission is far more conservative than it ever has been, and hard-right parties are in government in at least six EU countries (see e.g., https://www.politico.eu/article/mapped-europe-far-right-gove...), with conservative governments elsewhere. This is a strict break with tradition, where the extreme right has been excluded from European governments by consensus of other parties ever since the second world war.

Your beliefs are not aligned with reality. I am also personally in the middle of this research money refunnelling, I can vouch forst hand that research money is being funneled to startups and other private companies, while austerity measures are hitting hard across the EU.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#486

Post by mystraline »

pjmlp wrote: post #411
rayiner wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take nukes off the table, the U.S. doesn’t have a 100x military advantage. If China seriously mobilized its industrial capability, the U.S. may not have even a 2x advantage. Remember that, right before World War II, the US didn’t even have a top-10 military, having demobilized it after World War I. It’s vast industrial capacity is what enabled it to build a larger military than all of Europe combined within a…

The most important fact, that people overlook, is that its industrial capacity was never bombed during the war, and Pearl Harbour was the only time the country got directly attacked.

When was Pearl Harbor attacked by Japan?

Now, when did Hawai'i become a state?

And when and by whom was their king deposed?

> Pearl Harbour was the only time the country got directly attacked.

Uh, which country again was it?

(Edit: -4, really? Damn, people are salty about actually knowing history versus going against the US public school system's propaganda that "We (royal) were attacked". In reality, the occupier forces, the US military, were attacked, having deposed the government at the behest of Sanford Dole, of pineapple infamy.

But the simple bumper sticker slogan "Remember Pearl Harbor", short circuits and somehow gets people to ignore history at the behest of ruthless hegemonic expansion and irrational patriotism.)

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#487

Post by 59nadir »

stack_framer wrote: post #363
lapcat wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time believing this story. You seriously dropped out because you didn't like one class? That doesn't seem to show much fortitude. Which university, which year was this, what was your major, and what happened with your education and/or career after you dropped out? And what precisely do you mean by "castigated," in your specific case?

> You seriously dropped out because you didn't like one class? No. The university added other "studies" courses to my requirements that contributed to my decision. After taking gender studies, I knew I could not tolerate the other "studies" courses the university was suddenly demanding—which were not required when I first started. > Which university The University of Utah > which year was this 2014 > what was your ma…

> In a follow-up discussion, I committed the "sins" of referring to him as a man, and saying things like he is not a woman, and there are only two sexes.

Sincere question: Why were you not able to just think "Oh, ok, some people do this and feel this way." and then just move on? I'm not sure why these particular things needed to be discussed.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#488

Post by docfath »

rayiner wrote: post #161
collinmcnulty wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This view seems to be common, but I think it misses what incredible alchemy comes from making people who come in for “job training” (like I did) spend 4 years in close proximity with research, academic freedom, liberal arts, and at least an attempt at some kind of intellectual idealism separate from economic incentive. It’s peanut butter and chocolate that has served democracy and its people well by having a middle c…

That's historical revisionism. The percentage of American adults over age 25 who have a college degree was only 20% as recently as 1990. When America was truly at the top of the world in the 1950s and 1960s, it was under 10%. A high fraction of college attendance is better correlated with the 21st century decline in America's situation.

> A high fraction of college attendance is better correlated with the 21st century decline in America's situation.

Correlation != causation, but let’s go the correlation route and see where it goes…

China had correlation between higher-ed and economic growth, so I think you’re just trying to make an argument to support a fascist dictator who doesn’t want to be the dumbest person in the room.

The decline in Christianity, rise in apathy, rise of industry in other countries, offensive wars, rise of entertainment culture, etc. are correlated also.

One could also argue that the rise of uneducated conservatives was associated with U.S. decline.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#489

Post by dmix »

firesteelrain wrote: post #479
dmix wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was 10% of the US population who went to college before the GI bill, which then doubled to 20% over a decade following the war. Now >50% have post secondary. 70% attempt post-secondary after high school Before WW2 only about 40% of people completed high school, now it’s at 90%

Those numbers actually back up the point. The jump in education after WWII happened during the biggest boom years the US ever had. The rise to 40 percent college grads happened much later, during globalization and offshoring. So the slowdown is about the economy changing, not people getting more education. It is just a bad correlation.

Right, there was clearly much more capacity for advanced education with the rise of technology (farming advancements, medicine, electronics etc) that started before WW2

There is something to the point about needing a correction in post secondary education and making university again a specialized place rather than the catch all default generalized institutions. Where 70% of the population tries to waits 3-5yrs+ to enter the workforce in exchange for lots of debt. A debt heavily incentivized by cheap gov backed loans, subsidies, credential inflation, and very profitable immigration schemes.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#490

Post by tim333 »

the_gipsy wrote: post #376
kiba wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America doesn't and shouldn't fight China or Russia alone, so I don't know why we're talking about that. Russia is basically on its way out as a military power. It can't even conquer Ukraine. As for China, you don't fight China alone. What do you think military bases in Japan are for? Anyway, for the world's sake, China shouldn't start a war, but sometime you just can't stop stupid.

America is on a isolation downward spiral. Russia will conquer Ukraine, any other prediction at this point is absurd. See point one, America is alone now, it will take decades to repair the damage.

In March 2022 Russia occupied 27% of Ukraine. They have now lost much of their artillery tanks and then army and now control 19% of Ukraine while their oil refineries blow up, and recently tankers. I'm not sure the conquest is going quite to plan.
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