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Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

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Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#481

Post by protocolture »

nabla9 wrote: post #65
Freak_NL wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. Where? This is a thing which always pops up in these debates because it is a deep-rooted fear, but are there countries where this is a thing?

Canada. The critique is that people opt into euthanasia because of poverty, and that the government sees MAID economical alternative to investments in social programs and welfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada I don't think things are as bad, but I also think that old age in poverty is a valid reason for euthanasia if there is no alternative. If the society is cruel to the poor, holding poor elde…

From the article the safeguards seem fantastic and the biggest issue is the exclusion of mental health grounds.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#483

Post by gield »

bramhaag wrote: post #55

I think it's beautiful he got to go out on his own terms, when he felt it was the right time to do so. I'm often reminded about a case in my own country: a young person had decided it was time to end her life after struggling for many years, without a sign of improvement. She was denied the right to euthanasia. After multiple failed suicide attempts, she went for the nuclear option and jumped in front of a train. Eve…

Coincidentally, today there was an article in a Belgian newspaper about a 25-year-old woman who will undergo euthanasia in a few weeks due to severe psychological suffering with no prospect of improvement. After years of suffering and 40 failed suicide attempts, I indeed think it's much more dignified to have euthanasia as an option.

Euthanasia has some strict rules in Belgium, especially for cases involving psychological suffering. In 2014, the age restriction was dropped (except for psychological suffering). Since then, 6 minors have received euthanasia.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#484

Post by Andrex »

lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

34M. I live with my mom who's had it for a few years.

It sucks. It's so easy to forget who they were before the disease. This is them now and it's hard as hell.

Simple things that take 1-step for us take 50+ steps for her. She doesn't readily communicate that she's hungry or thirsty or needs to use the bathroom, we have to constantly ask. She's always exhausted and walking around in circles but reacts aggressively to most suggestions to go to bed or take a nap (no matter how we word it). She can't focus for more than a few seconds, so she has no hobbies to occupy her time, and even the TV loses her interest after a minute at most. Her speech is one unbroken babble, and she gets annoyed if someone starts a conversation near her but doesn't let her interject.

Not sure how much more my dad and I have left in us. The disease stripped everything from her and it's stripping everything from us. In-home care is the likely course but she hates all strangers and is always paranoid about anyone other than us being in the house. There's no good solution.

Tell your parents you love them.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#485

Post by krapp »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #473

Lots of discussion of the morality of assisted suicide in this thread, and the circumstances under which it should be legal. In the cryonics community, it's a common complaint that they have to wait until the patient is legally dead in order to cryopreserve, which can make it difficult to cryopreserve under ideal circumstances. I like the idea of allowing individuals to opt for cryopreservation over end-of-life care.…

You're talking about cryonics as if it were an established, scientifically proven and effective technology, but it doesn't work and is widely considered to be pseudoscience.

And mentioning the cost of end-of-life care is risible when your alternative is paying paying indefinite rent to a company for freezer space to keep a corpse frozen.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#486

Post by gield »

christkv wrote: post #394

I used to be for assisted suicide but I have changed to be against. The things that changed my mind is seeing how it has gone in countries that have implemented it like The Netherlands and Canada with what I consider to unethical assisted suicide of people with mental disorders and disabilities. It smacks of state sanctioned killings disguised as charity. The second one was what kind of psychopath assists in the kill…

What kind of psychopath is against people dying in a dignified way?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#487

Post by bsimpson »

lazyfanatic42 wrote: post #188

Took care of someone with Alzheimers for six years until they passed away. No one should have to exist like that, for that long. A biological shell simply of automatic inputs and outputs. Robin Williams had to hang himself. There should be easy medical options in the US.

Robin Williams' end was even more grim than that sentence lets on. Horrible to think of such a loved man going out is such a desparate way.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#488

Post by skibbityboop »

Noaidi wrote: post #402
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer, my life isn’t going to get better. And please don’t bring some mythical being in the argument.

Both the Buddha andJesus were real people. I wasn’t bringing up God as I don’t believe in a Christian God, and Buddhists don’t believe in God at all. But those two characters taught us a lot about suffering. Where it comes from and how to face suffering with courage and not just throw your morals out the window once you have the glimpse of even future suffering. Maybe it’s just me, but I see every moment as the best…

Yes, when dementia has you terrified of, or raging at, your closest loved ones (who you don't remember at all so you think they're demons or strangers) all day every day to the point where they all can't stand you and feel terrible for wishing death would come to end your massive suffering. Beautiful moments, just beautiful.

Hanging in there with cancer? Sure, fight it and deal with the pain. Dementia? No, please end it. The two aren't even close in comparison, cancer feels easy and merciful.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#489

Post by ares623 »

krapp wrote: post #485
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #473

Lots of discussion of the morality of assisted suicide in this thread, and the circumstances under which it should be legal. In the cryonics community, it's a common complaint that they have to wait until the patient is legally dead in order to cryopreserve, which can make it difficult to cryopreserve under ideal circumstances. I like the idea of allowing individuals to opt for cryopreservation over end-of-life care.…

You're talking about cryonics as if it were an established, scientifically proven and effective technology, but it doesn't work and is widely considered to be pseudoscience. And mentioning the cost of end-of-life care is risible when your alternative is paying paying indefinite rent to a company for freezer space to keep a corpse frozen.

I wish billionaires believed in it. Would make the world a much better place.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#490

Post by gield »

willmadden wrote: post #197

For every Daniel Kahneman case, there's a case where the victim doesn't give consent, is coerced, or pressured from caregivers. It always rapidly expands from terminal illness to mental illness or non-terminal conditions. There's also weak oversight and misaligned profit motives. The examples in the Netherlands, Switzerland, Canada, and Oregon are shocking.

Can you please list some of those examples?

You didn't mention Belgium so I'm pleased to hear that Belgium is doing well according to you (4000 cases of euthanasia per year of which 80 are for psychological suffering, 1 child per year).

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