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Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

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Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#61

Post by [deleted] »

0xEF wrote: post #35
pflenker wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could express your wishes about how you would like to be treated in advance, while you are still clear in the head. That’s already possible for other situations, like when you are braindead and entirely dependent on machines to keep you alive, with no chance of recovery.

Having a living will is a great idea in general. My dad got a brain tumor and had no documentation on what he wanted do with his estate, in the event he became vegetative, etc. By the time he realized he needed one, it was too late for "sound mind judgement" and my mom had to go through this ridiculous legal process to ensure she held on to his assets and whatnot while she was directly caring for a dying man. Save yo…

[deleted]

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#62

Post by em500 »

I'm surprised and fascinated that this is apparently legal in Switzerland. The Netherlands, famous for allowing assisted suicide, has pretty strict criteria for this[1].

In particular, the physician must "be satisfied that the patient’s suffering is unbearable, with no prospect of improvement", which from this article sounds far from the case here.

[1] https://www.government.nl/topics/euthanasia/is-euthanasia-al...

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#64

Post by hypeatei »

sarchertech wrote: post #60
mcdonje wrote: post #51

The sad demise of Robin Williams made me a believer of assisted suicide. The option to go out with dignity should be available to everyone. That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. That needs to be solved. Seems like an easy solve. Just don't do it. There is a cost reduction incentive, though,…

That’s the problem. If there’s a financial incentive people will find way to push it. That’s my biggest concern about assisted suicide for an otherwise healthy person who just wants to avoid the inevitable decline (as in this case). There is a direct financial incentive for families to push people into this. The only way I can see to remove that would be to require that your estate can’t go to anyone who potentially…

> There is a direct financial incentive for families to push people into this

What financial incentives are there in killing someone?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#65

Post by nabla9 »

Freak_NL wrote: post #58
mcdonje wrote: post #51

The sad demise of Robin Williams made me a believer of assisted suicide. The option to go out with dignity should be available to everyone. That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. That needs to be solved. Seems like an easy solve. Just don't do it. There is a cost reduction incentive, though,…

> That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. Where? This is a thing which always pops up in these debates because it is a deep-rooted fear, but are there countries where this is a thing?

Canada. The critique is that people opt into euthanasia because of poverty, and that the government sees MAID economical alternative to investments in social programs and welfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada

I don't think things are as bad, but I also think that old age in poverty is a valid reason for euthanasia if there is no alternative. If the society is cruel to the poor, holding poor elderly as hostage to improve situation is cruelty on top of the cruelty.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#66

Post by mcdonje »

xpe wrote: post #46
mcdonje wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about "next". I wasn't confused by the original usage. "Next" is more associated with "subsequent" than "upcoming". The "future" component is contextually inferred. Probably nobody at all got confused by that word choice.

> Probably nobody at all got confused by that word choice. This is overconfidence; e.g. it "it is clear to me, so it must have been clear to everyone else." Indeed, there is a person in this overall thread [1] saying the use of "next" was ambiguous: > I literally thought some unpublished book. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45548294

Ok, fine, probably someone will get confused about anything.

It was made clear to everyone because of the word choice in context. If someone didn't get it then they didn't put two and two together.

I looked up the word in a few different dictionaries and the top entry aligns more with "subsequent" in every one.

You are wrong on this.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#67

Post by sarchertech »

hypeatei wrote: post #64
sarchertech wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the problem. If there’s a financial incentive people will find way to push it. That’s my biggest concern about assisted suicide for an otherwise healthy person who just wants to avoid the inevitable decline (as in this case). There is a direct financial incentive for families to push people into this. The only way I can see to remove that would be to require that your estate can’t go to anyone who potentially…

> There is a direct financial incentive for families to push people into this What financial incentives are there in killing someone?

Inheritance.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#68

Post by markus_zhang »

pflenker wrote: post #24
WA wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but if you are in that state, you probably don’t give a shit and everybody else seems to be the problem. So how do you solve this? When dementia isn’t too far progressed, your life seems to be still worthwhile to live and once the dementia gets worse, it’s too late to realize this.

You could express your wishes about how you would like to be treated in advance, while you are still clear in the head. That’s already possible for other situations, like when you are braindead and entirely dependent on machines to keep you alive, with no chance of recovery.

Even if you express this in a wish, but you probably don’t remember it when you are deep into this, how does it get executed? I’m curious about this, so does the court overrule the current you with the previous you?

I get it’s easy with other diseases such as cancer, though.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#69

Post by yawpitch »

anilgulecha wrote: post #20

I'm part of the Jain community in Bangalore, and the version of this in society exists, called Sallekhna [1], a tradition that's developed over millennia, and this is venerated and celebrated. The philosophical underpinning is giving up of materialness. The practicality of the 5 instances that I witnessed over the past year - typical terminal individuals choose this. They pass away surrounded by loved ones (they typi…

Ever since I learned of Jainism I’ve wished I’d learned of it earlier.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#70

Post by xpe »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #63

Now this is hilariously non-ironic. The guy who spent his life researching how to live rationally chooses suicide at age 90, upon seeing “increasing metal lapses”, presumably in order to not ever live irrationally.

> Now this is ironic.

Ironic is the opposite of what you mean, don't you think? By your explanation, Kahneman acted according to his life's work.

> The guy who spent his life researching how to live rationally chooses suicide at age 90, upon seeing “increasing metal lapses”, presumably in order to not ever live irrationally.

That was possibly part of his motivation. But also the pain, suffering (goes broader than physical pain), confusion, and cost -- to him and his family.

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