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14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

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Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#481
post #32

It was absolutely not just social media ban, it was mostly youth protesting against the corrupt government and unfairness, social media ban was one element that was against the freedom of speech, but it was right around the time where everyone was documenting the rich politicians, their business connections and their families that have been living lavishly and just inheriting the election seats from generation to gen…

The corruption is simply incredible. About fifteen years ago I found myself in Kathmandu after getting altitude sickness. The team's fixer brought me to lunch with some government officials. The topic of discussion? How to steal from a hydroelectric project. One of his guests outright asked, "should we be talking about this in front of this guy?" The fixer shrugged it off saying "he's a Westerner, what is he going to…

And they were discussing all this in English, or can you speak Nepali?

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they heard I was an electrical engineer Just an add to what has been said. This might be because they heard you are an electrical engineer. I really don't know your qualifications, but here (in Paraguay), electrical engineering is a different degree than electronical engineering. You might be versed in electronics as your primary field, but since they heard you are an electrical engineer, they thought you could che…

Yes I was totally unqualified for what they were doing. Also pretty big language barrier because my Spanish is pretty bad. And Guarani, forget it. I could probably "fake" it enough to do it now, but not back then. They were extremely nice though and it was cool to check out a farming project. I would have liked to see some of the more remote farms but never got around to it. Paraguay felt very much to me like the mid…

> Paraguay felt very much to me like the midwest / "Iowa/Ohio" of South America

Funny that you say that. I am by no means a countryside person, I'm as urbanite as any other. But while I never was in Iowa or Ohio (save for a short layover), I lived in West Michigan, and therefore in the Midwest, for some time; and yes, despite the climate being quite different, things seemed somewhat familiar to me in many aspects.

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please go through the article I linked and find some 20th century examples. _at the time of the conspiracy_ there was no solid evidence of their involvement. That implies your method isn't actually a good way to be aware of the ones the CIA is _actually doing_ versus authoritarians coping for their own failures

When the CIA does something, we at the time don't know that the CIA is doing it (if they're doing it competently). That is true. But run the experiment the other way. A friend of mine once said that if a light bulb burns out on Tierra Del Fuego, somebody claims that it's a CIA conspiracy. Of all the public claims (gated by some level of seriousness or authority) of CIA involvement, what fraction turned out to be true…

Does the CIA have a longstanding documented history of burning out light bulbs? because they do for coups and other regime change efforts

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#484
post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Telling the poor/weak to use the tools designed for rich/powerful is just obscuring the reality. Lobbying is not a tool designed for the rich/powerful. It is literally just communicating with to politicians your interests. Corporations spend a lot on lobbying, but that's because they have to pay "corporate rates". Grass-roots organizations only need to pay for the basic expenses of their lobbyists. The NAACP succes…

1.) "Lobbying is not a tool designed for the rich/powerful. It is literally just communicating with to politicians your interests. Corporations spend a lot on lobbying, but that's because they have to pay "corporate rates"." Sorry, no. In other countries what goes as 'lobbying' in US would be mostly classified as blatant corruption of the politics. Citizens United also... Corporations are centralized entities that ha…

> In other countries what goes as 'lobbying' in US would be mostly classified as blatant corruption of the politics.

Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Every democratic country has professional lobbyists.

> Corporations are centralized entities that have access to a lot of money and (also through money) to lobbying specialists

Indeed the purpose of money is to purchase goods and services. That doesn't contradict anything that I said. My point is that you don't need a lot of money to lobby. There are plenty of people who are willing to lobby for just causes for their bare minimum expenses. Nowadays, people have forgotten it is even an option.

> Normal citizens face and uphill struggle in every step - they have to get organized, get money, get specialists.

Achieving goals requires investment and effort. Boo hoo. The demographic that frequents HN absolutely has the time and money to make meaningful changes in the world that they complain about, yet they act like they're helpless victims.

> Shouldn't voting for the people who represent your interests be actually enough?

For one, voters only care about vibes. They don't give a shit about policy. Mitch McConnell reassured fellow Republicans that voters would "get over" the Medicaid cuts. He may be evil, but he is good at what he does and is 100% correct here. This attitude goes across the political spectrum. The most popular politicians on the left (e.g. AOC and Sanders) have some of the weakest

Even in a best case scenario of an informed voter base, voting still isn't enough. Politicians and their dozen or so staffers can't be experts in every aspect of society.

> Colonisation of North America was not a central plan.

It's almost as if you brought up a famine in a different continent. Colonization of land and resources is different from the colonization of a people, which is central planning.

> Ultimately, it is not about who has the power and where does the legitimacy of power come from, but how is that power wielded.

I don't really disagree with anything below.

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic color revolution — China and India will be watching intently.

China and India are meddling in this. Nothing in Nepali politics happens without either China or India's hands or implicit blessing. Heck, regional Nepali politicans will literally vie for Nitish Kumar or Lalu Prasad Yadav's (the two perpetual CMs of Bihar) backing. Even the Armed Forces(pro-India) and the Armed Police Force (pro-China) are at each others throats. Whenever India feels Nepal is getting too close to Ch…

> China and India are meddling in this. Nothing in Nepali politics happens without either China or India's hands or implicit blessing

Neither China nor India have so far meddled in this. It came as as surprise to both nations.

Also, neither China nor India control Nepal's social media. You would have to look at the yanks for that.

This is Nepal's self owned problem. Corruption has got entrenched into the system and you need fresh blood and a large number of hard-working politicians to fix these issues and make the government accountable.

We had many extensive corruption protests in India before the national BJP took over 15 years ago and Modi made bureaucrats accountable. Sadly, there has been some slacking after the initial years.

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In primitive societies where people are expected to resolve their own problems because everyone is roughly equal, violence is the principal currency, for better or worse. But in "civilized" societies with multiple layers of power structures, you are not supposed to solve your own problem, you are supposed to show somebody in a position of power that you are the victim so they solve the problem for you. This means vic…

interesting thesis, but I dont see why you focus on victimhood over every other form of leverage. I dont think victimhood motivates those in power to take action. They care about votes. victimhood is but one of many factors driving votes. Your conclusion supports the relevance of violence (it is always the final currency of power). your conclusion says nothing about victimhood. How can you look around the country or…

Say you're a parent or teacher and see kids fighting. Do you investigate who started it every single time or do you just get fed up and tell them to stop fighting or you'll punish both?

Incentivizing victims to behave in certain ways such as not fighting back makes it easier to determine victim and aggressor.

I never said victims have power. Just that victimhood is encouraged from a young age.

It used to be normal for kids to fight and for parents to teach them to always fight back, stand up for others, do not let injustice stand, etc. Oh and do not tell on others, nobody likes a rat. Now the message is to not fight or you might get hurt, tell an adult to resolve conflicts, everything you do might have consequences later so be careful about what you do or say. There are schools where if two kids fight, both get suspended. You're literally not allowed to defend yourself. I've seen a video of a girl getting beaten in the head while she was lying on her desk, waiting for it to be over.

And you're right, victims have no power to influence those in positions of power. But victimhood is used as a weapon against those on the same level of power by making the "authorities" punish them for victimizing you.

It works on multiple levels of severity.

Online, if you're in a place which forbids swearing, you provoke others into swearing at you and they get punished - you used mods against them. At school, you make yourself cry and go tell the teacher what supposedly happened - you used the teachers against them. At work, you do pretty much the same thing, minus crying if you're a man. Using the legal system in this way is harder because unlike the previous places, it requires a certain level of proof which is harder to fabricate but false accusations do happen, not with the intent to be prosecuted but as a method of slander through a third party. Look how many men are afraid to make the first move because of the low-probability high-severity event that the woman sees it as harassment.

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you actually understand what you're asking for? Those sorts of regulations exist as consumer protections, because you're paying for a service ... Yes, I do understand what I am asking for - these should indeed be paid services (subsidised by the government through a common national communication infrastructure, to make it cheaper for ordinary people). This gives three benefits - (1) strong consumer rights (no gr…

>these should indeed be paid services Okay... But they're not. I don't think it's possible to force someone to accept payment for something they want to give away for free. >subsidised by the government through a common national communication infrastructure, to make it cheaper for ordinary people So you want to make a free service paid, and then make it cheaper? Are you a politician? I can't imagine anyone else sayin…

To summarise - I want my democratically elected government to have a strong influence and control over foreign corporates when they operate in my country, to protect my country's national interest and enforce my rights as a citizen. I do not trust a foreign company or a foreign government to do so, whether they are American or Chinese. What I've suggested are some of the ways we can regulate foreign online corporates to (1) to create a competitive market (2) to protect consumer rights (3) to protect national interests. If you still do not understand or appreciate that, let's just realise that we have different political values.

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the answer is that people cheer for protests they like and punish riots they don’t. This is politics and that’s why there is so much fighting about how news and history chooses to frame them. The headline we have received today is telling me it’s a good protest.

Oh, so killing the parliamentarians is ok if the protest is just?

That’s what happened in the American revolution. That’s also what the US did to the Iraqis

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>these should indeed be paid services Okay... But they're not. I don't think it's possible to force someone to accept payment for something they want to give away for free. >subsidised by the government through a common national communication infrastructure, to make it cheaper for ordinary people So you want to make a free service paid, and then make it cheaper? Are you a politician? I can't imagine anyone else sayin…

To summarise - I want my democratically elected government to have a strong influence and control over foreign corporates when they operate in my country, to protect my country's national interest and enforce my rights as a citizen. I do not trust a foreign company or a foreign government to do so, whether they are American or Chinese. What I've suggested are some of the ways we can regulate foreign online corporates…

What our values are is not even a concern in this discussion. I just think you have no fucking clue how the real world works, or how these ridiculous ideas of yours could possibly be implemented.

Re: 14 Killed in anti-government protests in Nepal

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UN is a western liberal organization. I didn’t say I agree or disagree - I said businesses generally aim to abide by local law, not engage in western political projects.

You said because it is a proxy for local people's moral systems. Firstly, laws are not a great proxy for local people's moral systems in dictatorships. I am not sure they are even that reliable proxy in democracies. Secondly, while some exact expressions are of western origin, the general concept of freedom is pretty universal. Secondly, ideas of western origin might well be widely supported by people anywhere. Ideas…

> You said because it is a proxy for local people's moral systems.

Yes. Does your business have people who second guess local laws and customs according to their higher sense or morality?

> the general concept of freedom is pretty universal

No it’s not. To some freedom is doing whatever you want. To some freedom is free from bad choices and unhappiness. To others, freedom is for themselves and not others.

> Secondly, ideas of western origin might well be widely supported by people anywhere.

You’re still missing where this is a responsibility for operating a business.

> Will you be entirely amoral and cooperate with any laws

That’s what businesses generally do, yes. And they use the legal system to fight laws they disagree with.

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