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Google is winning on every AI front

thealgorithmicbridge.com

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Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#481

Post by tsimionescu »

UltraSane wrote: post #473
istjohn wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No guarantees that Google discover a meaningful business model here... I don't understand this sentiment at all. The business model writes itself (so to speak). This is the company that perfected the art of serving up micro-targeted ads to people at the moment they are seeking a solution to a problem. Just swap the search box for a chat bot. For a while they'll keep the ads off to the side, but over time the ads wi…

LLM based advertising has amazing potential when you consider that you can train them to try to persuade people to buy the advertised products and services.

That seems like a recipe for class action false advertising lawsuits. The AI is extremely likely to make materially false claims, and if this text is an advertisement, whoever placed it is legally liable for that.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#482

Post by tom_m »

baby_souffle wrote: post #400
dcow wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think “AI” as a market is “winner-takes-anything”. Seriously. AI is not a product, it’s a tool for building other products. The winners will be other businesses that use AI tooling to make better products. Does OpenAI really make sense as a chatbot company?

> Does OpenAI really make sense as a chatbot company? If the chat bot remains useful and can execute on instructions, yes. If we see a plateau in integrations or abilities, it’ll stagnate.

Very few are successful in this position. Zapier comes to mind, but it seems like a tiring business model to me.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#483

Post by throwup238 »

singhrac wrote: post #422
remoquete wrote: post #5

I was a loyal Claude user until I decided to try Gemini 2.5. "After all", I thought, "I already use a Pixel phone, so it's integrated with Android. And with Google Drive. And I can get it through my Google One subscription." And now that I'm on it, I don't think I'm going back. Google did it again.

Can you choose a model via the Gemini app? I can on the webapp (finally), but on the mobile app it won’t let me choose. Using Gemini via Google Workspace.

2.5 Pro Experimental and Deep Research showed up in the Gemini app for me today days after it was available on web so it seems to be different roll outs for different platforms.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#484

Post by tsimionescu »

bigyabai wrote: post #442
behnamoh wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't burn money in AI for 15 years on the off chance that it’ll pay off.

I dunno, Nvidia worked on machine learning for 11+ years and it worked out great for them: https://research.nvidia.com/research-area/machine-learning-a...

Sure, but they were making tons of money elsewhere. OpenAI has no source of revenue anywhere big enough to cover its expenses, it's just burning investor cash at the moment.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#485

Post by dragonwriter »

torginus wrote: post #478
wccrawford wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, ad-supported LLMs would be incredibly bad. But "free" is a magic word in our brains, and I'm 100% sure that many, many people will choose it over paying for it to be uncorrupted by ads.

Free might as well be a curse-word to me, and I'm not alone. I'm old enough to have experience in pre-internet era magazines, and the downgrade in quality from paid publications to free ones has been quite substatial. Free-to-play is a thing in video games, and for most, it means they'll try to bully you into spending more money than you'd be otherwise comfortable with. I think everyone at this point had enough bad e…

> Free might as well be a curse-word to me, and I'm not alone. I'm old enough to have experience in pre-internet era magazines, and the downgrade in quality from paid publications to free ones has been quite substantial.

The cool thing is it is trivial for LLM vendors to leverage this bias as well the pro-free bias other people have to also sell a premium, for-pay offering that, like pre-internet magazines is, despite not being free to the user, still derives the overwhelming majority of its revenue from advertising. Although one of the main reasons advertising-sponsored print media in the pre-internet era often wasn't free is that paid circulation numbers were a powerful selling point for advertisers who didn't have access to the kind of analytics available on the internet; what users were paying for often wasn't the product so much as a mechanism of proving their value to advertisers.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#486

Post by tom_m »

behnamoh wrote: post #275
fpoling wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opera browser was not profitable for like 15 years and still became rather profitable eventually to make an attractive target to purchase by external investors. And even if not bough it would still made nice profit eventually for the original investors.

You can't burn money in AI for 15 years on the off chance that it’ll pay off.

No, but you can let others burn money for 15 years and then come in and profit off their work while they go under.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#487

Post by SubiculumCode »

thunderbird120 wrote: post #260
marcusb wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > I’m forgetting something. Oh, of course, Google is also a hardware company. With its left arm, Google is fighting Nvidia in the AI chip market (both to eliminate its former GPU dependence and to eventually sell its chips to other companies). How well are they doing? They just announced the 7th version of their TPU, Ironwood. The specifications are impressive. It’s a chip made for the AI era of inf…

Nice to see that they added that, but that section wasn't in the article when I wrote that comment.

It was there.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#488

Post by phreeza »

ipaddr wrote: post #368
Mistletoe wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind you are talking to someone that worked at OpenAI and surely knows more of how the sausage is made and how the books look than you do?

That's like asking a McDonald's employee if they own Burger King stock and making market assumptions on that. The best people have already left is such a common trope.

Except OpenAI has like 2000 employees.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#489

Post by riku_iki »

uncomplexity_ wrote: post #247
flexie wrote: post #120

Google will need a far better LLM than OpenAI to throw them decisively off the AI throne, just like another company would need a far better search engine than Google to throw them off the search throne. ChatGPT is now the 7th highest ranking website on the planet - does anyone outside the HN crowd know about Google AI Studio? Brands matter, and when regular people think AI, they think of OpenAI before they think Goog…

fair call but 1. unlike openai, google is already cashflow positive and doesnt need to raise any external funds 2. unlike openai, google already has the distribution figured out on both software and hardware google is like an aircraft carrier that takes so fucking long to steer, but once done steering its entire armada will wipe you the fuck out (at least on the top 20% features for 80% use case) anthropic already es…

> unlike openai, google is already cashflow positive and doesnt need to raise any external funds

this can quickly change in several quarters, if users decide to leave google search, then all google org/infra complexity will play very badly against them

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#490

Post by ezst »

amelius wrote: post #281
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's be a >$10bn business already. But not profitable yet.

The demand is there. People are already becoming addicted to this stuff.

For many, this stuff is mostly about copilot being shoved down everyone's throats via ms office obnoxious ads and distractions, and I haven't yet heard of anyone liking it or perceiving it as an improvement. We are now years into this, so my bets are on the thing fading away slowly and becoming a taboo at Microsoft.
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