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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#481

Post by evilos »

scarface_74 wrote: post #447
evilos wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brand new android phone cost me $50, no plan attached or anything like that. Granted, that was a steal but I've never paid more than ~ $300 for my phones and I use them for 3 to 4 years.

My wife and I use to called the cheap slow Android phones that we have our sons when they lost/damage their iPhone - “punishment phones”. They were so slow they were painful.

They've come a looong way. I often find myself surprised at how long my girlfriend's brand new iphone takes to do basic things. I know Apple's A series processors are leagues ahead of what's in my mid range android phone but honestly it often feels like a wash. Granted I'm not playing mobile games or anything, just using maps and browsing reddit and it may often be network latency that I'm feeling not CPU perf.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#482

Post by evilos »

scarface_74 wrote: post #439
evilos wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These phones have been made before at scale, I'm sure we could manage: https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s5-6033.php > What is the point of replacing a battery when the charging port, headphone jack, physical buttons, touch screen, etc are spec'd to fail well before the average battery does Parts often/usually last far in excess of what they're spec'd for as I'm sure you know. And many of the things you list ar…

And they also required the flap to be closed for it to be water resistant.

Yes but USB C has solved that problem.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#483

Post by scarface_74 »

evilos wrote: post #482
scarface_74 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they also required the flap to be closed for it to be water resistant.

Yes but USB C has solved that problem.

Which modern phone has a removable battery and is water resistant?

The vaunted Samsung s5, you still had to make sure that the battery was very secure and just right.

> https://www.gottabemobile.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-water-test-d...

> If you remove the battery, the Galaxy S5 will remind you to make sure the back cover is back in place securely.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#484

Post by Etheryte »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #420
wizofaus wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it drives an uptick in sales in the EU you can count on it being eventually implemented for customers in the US and elsewhere too. Though it's even possible Apple knows it will help sell the devices better - at least initially, but they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem.

> they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem. Every time someone says shit like "locked into the Apple ecosystem", god kills a kitten. Lots of people switch back and forth between iOS and Android. Nobody's going to go for USB-C on their iPhones if they can get Lightning ports. The Lightning port is far superior mechanically (both more durable and easier to clean from debris) and unlike most…

I wouldn't really make swooping generalizations like that, just because you like an option doesn't mean everyone is that way. For example I would much rather have USB-C on my iPhone because then I would only ever need one charger cable for everything I need to charge.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#485

Post by legulere »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

How long software updates are provided is part of the repairability score

https://www.heise.de/news/EU-Kommission-bringt-Reparatur-und...

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#486

Post by [deleted] »

rtsil wrote: post #324
thrashh wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual concern with regulation is not the big players. It’s the smaller products and businesses that cease to exist because it’s too expensive to meet regulations. Bad regulation raises the cost of entry into the market and strengthens the big players like Apple.

That argument is often used in bad faith/FUD by the big players themselves to halt any regulation attempts. Regulations can be adapted to affect only the companies that reach X percentage in sales or in market share. The EU's Digital Markets Act does precisely this, for instance. The regulators can let smaller players grow and thrive, and regulate them once they've exceeded a certain threshold.

[deleted]

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#487

Post by samastur »

munk-a wrote: post #188
xenadu02 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make this claim but have you ever worked in product design for something trying to achieve an IP water and dust ingress rating? It is far more than "just a gasket and a few screws". The rating can't just be good on unboxing day. You want it to hold even after a few years, several drops on the floor, in cold weather, etc.

Watch makers solved this problem decades ago - there are very reasonable mechanical solutions to waterproofing. And if some limited components need to be sealed (i.e. the USB port requires special shielding) that sealing can easily exist in a device that is otherwise reasonable to maintain. Watch maintenance has been done by skilled professionals using generic tools and (generally) generic components. Waterproofing i…

They solved it in a way where they don't guarantee you that it is water proof for more than 2 years without service and appropriate maintenance and it stops being water proof as soon as you open it.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#488

Post by thrashh »

oblio wrote: post #313
thrashh wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual concern with regulation is not the big players. It’s the smaller products and businesses that cease to exist because it’s too expensive to meet regulations. Bad regulation raises the cost of entry into the market and strengthens the big players like Apple.

Thankfully people here are asking for good regulation, once which states that at some point in the future every phone ever sold in market X needs to have its core software open sourced, so companies can plan ahead.

Who is asking for bad regulation?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#489

Post by seu »

deelowe wrote: post #120
surgical_fire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please, EU: bring a law that forces manufacturers to release their drivers / firmware whenever they stop updating a digital device. I wish I could upvote this more. It's a crime how I had to throw away in the past perfectly usable devices because they were forced into obsolescence.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

> I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

Exactly the reason to force manufacturers to change their supply chains.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#490

Post by thrashh »

rendaw wrote: post #371
thrashh wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual concern with regulation is not the big players. It’s the smaller products and businesses that cease to exist because it’s too expensive to meet regulations. Bad regulation raises the cost of entry into the market and strengthens the big players like Apple.

How would _this_ regulation raise the cost of entry? At worst they'd just have to release the source code for the firmware they wrote (putting source code on github takes maybe 5m).

Source code probably involves libraries from other companies and covers patents owned by other people.

No one is building a product from complete scratch.

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