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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

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481–490 of 778 posts

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also doesn't have to be profitable. Transportation is a service that's critical to economic function. There's no reason not to shift the cost of taxpayer funded vehicle infrastructure to transit infrastructure.

What those utilizing the transportation network are willing and able to pay to use the network will be directly proportional to how critical the usage of that transportation network is to economic function. So there is never any economic need to transfer the cost of using the transportation network from those using it, to taxpayers at large. In fact, socializing costs of transportation is what can cause economically…

    > So there is never any economic need to transfer the cost of using the transportation network from those using it, to taxpayers at large.
Like most things in a thriving, functioning society, socializing the costs is what makes it work. Let me reframe your statement:

    > So there is never any economic need to transfer the cost of using the education system from those using it, to taxpayers at large. In fact, socializing costs of education is what can cause economically non-viable education services to consume greater amounts of resources, and in doing so, burden the economy.
Yet this same education system is what has produced a society capable of enormous economic output over the relatively short history of public education.

Your argument is the most basic of libertarian nonsense that would argue that in past decades would argue that tax dollars collected in UT shouldn't fund interstate highways in CA.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do we want from self driving cars? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I want public transportation infrastructure and far, far, FAR fewer cars. I think the US should strive to reduce car ownership by 75% over the next 20 years, at least in cities over a certain population size. I don't want any more money invested in self-driving cars. But I'm also a grown-up of a certain age and realize the bright-eyed 20-something…

This isn't what we need. I don't want to depend on the government for my primary means of travel or be limited by it.

What about a taxi? What about a private bus company? I'd argue that even if you don't like or trust your government there are environmental, economic, and infrastructure issues affecting the whole world that result from an overreliance on private cars. Surely you can find a way to maintain your liberty without having a car sitting in your driveway all day.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#483
These articles are idiotic clickbait that try to manufacture some kind of drama by throwing the word Tesla in the title.

Tesla is smoking the competition in AVs. Go watch any of WholeMarsBlog's videos on YouTube, of FSD Beta perfectly navigating rush hour San Francisco streets, or driving him from SF to LA without intervention. This is already happening regularly, and has been for months.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#484
post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

> What do we want from self driving cars

Frankly? I want another 10-15 years of independence for my dad. His eyesight is failing due to a mix of wonky genetics, he's fine driving in daylight, but already has started being much more cautious driving around dusk.

I want an AR display that will highlight the road and objects in it. I was LiDAR sensors hitting the brakes if it detects catastrophe. I want the car to augment and extend his ability to use it.

That's the big sell of self driving cars. Not "push a button and be whisked away," but having your own abilities enhanced by machine input that would otherwise be inaccessible to you.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This FUD is insane. You make it sounds like Tesla's with FSD on are crashing all the time. This makes no sense at all, because... they aren't?

FUD is an interesting term. Why do you use it here? Are you implying GP’s message is part of a broader campaign?

Not op but there are several groups that are independent but essentially aligned on anti-Tesla motivation that have reasons to support campaigns against Tesla: TSLAQ, union supporters, oil producers, legacy auto, to name just a few. There are more. And FUD is well known and easy enough that even individuals can practice it, so I wouldn’t read too much into that.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#486
post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

The decision making technology is definitely possible, not this year or next but in a decade? Sure, plausible.

However removing all the sensors, reducing redundancy, from a high speed moving car to save manufacturing costs and increase profits is in direct conflict with safe driving for the passenger and other people on the road.

Many more sensors, much more redundancy, roads that give feedback, networked cars that give feedback, satellites for near realtime external updates, all will make cars eventually drive themselves better than humans.

But certainly not "just cameras" that cannot even handle weather without severely compromised guessing. You don't do that in a physical world requiring safety.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What those utilizing the transportation network are willing and able to pay to use the network will be directly proportional to how critical the usage of that transportation network is to economic function. So there is never any economic need to transfer the cost of using the transportation network from those using it, to taxpayers at large. In fact, socializing costs of transportation is what can cause economically…

> So there is never any economic need to transfer the cost of using the transportation network from those using it, to taxpayers at large. Like most things in a thriving, functioning society, socializing the costs is what makes it work. Let me reframe your statement: > So there is never any economic need to transfer the cost of using the education system from those using it, to taxpayers at large. In fact, socializin…

>Like most things in a thriving, functioning society, socializing the costs is what makes it work.

What is it about transportation wherein socializing the costs of using it would make it work?

Toll roads work all around the world, and better than the routes where the costs are socialized.

>Yet this same education system is what has produced a society capable of enormous economic output over the relatively short history of public education.

The modern education system arose largely in the 1930' "high school movement", which was almost all locally funded and controlled, and thus subject to very little socializing of costs.

As the costs of providing education have become increasingly socialized, the spending efficiency has decreased as rent-seeking institutions like teachers unions have taken over:

https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/111/3/671/1839...

>Your argument is the most basic of libertarian nonsense that would argue that in past decades would argue that tax dollars collected in UT shouldn't fund interstate highways in CA.

I never made a libertarian argument. I made an appeal to basic economics. That triggered your anti-libertarian ideological defense mechanism, which has been instilled in the populace by the rent-seeking institutions that rely on centralized control:

https://www.hoover.org/research/california-state-government-...

These rent-seeking mechanisms are rapidly taking over the economy:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-long...

And as they do, the belief systems that they rely on, like anti-libertarianism, become more pervasive.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#488
I think it's a shame that Cruise https://getcruise.com/ isn't mentioned thus far.

They've been fully autonomous in San Francisco for something like a year, and are piloting in Austin and Phoenix(?) ...

No need to own a car if it can be doing dozens of trips instead of paying for parking.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#489
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea you will struggle to find a single video of drive pilot where it’s not driven by a representative from Mercedes. In those, you can see the system disengage the second it doesn’t have a vehicle to follow at slow speeds right in front of it (like when the vehicle ahead changes lanes). Useless.

It is sad to see how many people in this thread will assume the absolute worst with respect to Tesla's FSD capabilities and then will accept this Level 3 announcement from Mercedes in the most charitable way possible. It requires little effort to achieve Level 3 in extremely constrained situations. For example, it would be almost trivial for any autonomy company to achieve "Level 3" at 5 miles per hour within a speci…

I'm also finding this really sad. Its painfully obvious to anyone who has used either system recently the majority of commenters have no idea what they are talking about either, the amount of nonsense in this thread about both Tesla and Mercedes ADAS implementations. As always with car discussions on this site, people's feelings about brands and their stereotypical owners seem to cloud any reasonable discourse (especially when Tesla or FSD gets mentioned, sigh). That and of course everyone on Hackernews is apparently an automotive industry expert to boot...

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#490
post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

Owning a Tesla with FSD, it no where close to being able to drive autonomous. I have intervened multiple times where it would have caused a serious accident like merging into a concrete barrier or not detecting a car while trying to turn right into a lane. They still can't fix the phantom braking problem has plague my car from the beginning and i have to drive on the freeways with my foot over the accelerator so i can cancel the hard braking.
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