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‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

nature.com

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Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#481
post #389
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's quite undeniable that modern life has drawbacks and obesity is just a symptom. Yea, people tend to forget pre-green revolution people going hungry for longer periods of time and mass starvation were really common. We made a trade, between the sudden and terrible outcome of starving and hunger to one of long term consequences like obesity and disease.

That sounds to me like a false equivalence. The cause of obesity is not that food is plentiful because different rich countries have different obesity rates. There is something else driving this issue and, in my opinion, is the prevalence of processed foods and use of highly processed seed oils.

Obesity is 100% caused by food is plentiful, with a catch....

There has to be excess calories in the first place, much like there must be oxygen for there to be a fire (don't you try to get florine involved in this).

Humans eating behavior seems to be driven by the first few years of our lives. If you eat like garbage as a kid, it follows you into adulthood. The US was (somewhat, there are still plenty of other even fatter countries) first with the TV to counter advertising that taught us that Trix was part of a balanced breakfast and that we should carry a coke wherever we go.

Other countries likely had confounding factors that slowed the excess calorie uptake. For example common traditional meals that were only replaced slowly. Other things that can tip the scale are things like higher walkability in their cities.(for example higher walkability in the US correlates with lower body mass).

But as stated, those confounding factors only slowed the fattening, it didn't stop it and the EU now is growing in weight just like the US did in the past.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that injections cost ~ $1000/month, you're saying basically that it'll be a great recurring revenue stream for the companies. A CFO's wet dream.

I did a little bit of research and for people in the UK it appears to be substantially less. I found a few health companies offering it for <$250/mo. I’ll probably wait until it’s readily available on the NHS but it is tempting.

My US doctor recommended it to me last week and said there was a way for it to cost about $200/mo if I want to do that. I thought it was strange that he said it that way instead of just saying the price, but I didn't follow up because we were 45 minutes into the appointment and I was ready to get out of there.

I'm supposed to book a follow up appointment after I've read about it, so I guess I'll find out what he means then.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#483

> In the past, scientists and the public often thought that those with obesity simply lacked the willpower to lose weight. But evidence is growing that most people’s bodies have a natural size that can be hard to change. In the context where we have gone from obesity rates of 13 percent to 40, to suggest that people have a natural weight and that's the cause of this seems absurd to me.

https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...

TLDR: The modern obesity epidemic is mostly a mystery, things like higher caloric food, western diet bad don't tell the whole story. Most likely answers are chemical contaminants in our foods and water i.e. lithium or PFAS chemicals. Interestingly enough both wild animals and lab animals(rats) have been getting fatter over time as well which clearly invalidates the "bad diet" theory. The Human body has a lipostat, you "natural weight" mechanism if you will and it seems these contaminants increase the lipostat and this results in widespread obesity.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that injections cost ~ $1000/month, you're saying basically that it'll be a great recurring revenue stream for the companies. A CFO's wet dream.

consider that treating obesity-related consequences also costs money and enriches companies as well. I think its worth it

Considering the benefits of good diets and exercise, I think it's worth it not trying to hack or shortcut our way to a healthy life with weird drugs or whatever.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to find any major research showing either diet has a significant health impact on either 1) non-overweight individuals who remain non-overweight; or 2) has a health impact after controlling for changes in weight/obesity/body fat. It's virtually non-existent. Perhaps there are small differences on the margin, but all dwarfed by the impact of obesity. Again this shouldn't shock us, because we know hunter-gatherers…

The point is that certain diets are more likely to prevent non-overweight individuals from remaining non-overweight. Example study where participants ate two different diets, one highly processed and one less processed, that were matched for macronutrient and calorie content: https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(19)30248...

So you agree, the overwhelming impact of diet on health is from reducing obesity?

And surely you also agree with the science that we now have drugs that are far more effective at reducing obesity than any diet known to man.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#486

> “I’m really hesitant to be excited about something that I think is potentially harmful from a weight stigma perspective,” says Sarah Nutter, a psychologist at the University of Victoria in Canada, who specializes in weight stigma and body image. Putting the word "stigma" on things is a sure sign of a grifter. Instead of helping solve it, they're trying to make it a social science problem. Being overweight is unheal…

Last name is Nutter too, literally a nutter.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#487
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The body is an energy equation to be balanced. Physics defines that. What you are talking about substantially in your post is about willpower with regards to eating and exercise which is totally different.

Evolution had no care about the understanding of applied physics when we came up the evolutionary tree. Understanding physics here almost has no effect on our behavior. Instead look at the evolutionary incentives. If you starve you are going to die and it is going to fucking hurt the entire time you are dying. With that one line of information you now understand not only humans but the vast majority of animal life on…

Notably, this is (presumably) why our bodies often think it's a very good trade-off to turn everything down instead of burning fat. Fat is important long-term storage that might be what gets us through the winter starvation, and storing/burning it is a lossy process -- turning down the tap on our energy usage for a little while, however, might be all we need to get through a lean few weeks.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be sooner to suspect environmental contaminants (changing types of air pollution, microplastics, pesticides on food, stress hormones in factory-farmed meat, et al) as a cause. Although I suspect there's something to your hypothesis as well. I don't know about a spoonful of oil, but I have gone through phases where food seems less "rewarding" on a physiological level, and as a result I feel more satisfied with les…

Air pollution seems unlikely as it's been falling for decades, and America has much lower levels than Europe. Microplastics are a perennial boogey man, and probably a genuine ecological issue, but there has no been mountains of studies done and documented health effects are virtually non-existent. Livestock and slaughterhouse conditions are certainly not good from an animal welfare perspective, but we've had similar…

PFAS chemicals are a likely culprit, their presence increased dramatically as obesity rates took off and they are stubbornly persistent in the water and food supply.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#489

I’m currently taking one of these drugs and it has been no less than a miracle in my life. I became obese when I was around 5, topping out around a 34 BMI. When I was 20 I lost a substantial amount of weight the old fashioned way (diet and exercise), and within 8 months I was BMI 23. Losing weight was extremely challenging and socially isolating. 7 years later, I had a bad ankle injury and regained weight to about 29…

I was put on topomax for extreme migraines. Turned out a side effect was zero appetite. Unfortunately another side effect was to lose of about 60 iq points. Loved the weight loss. Missed having a brain.

That's why it's called dope-a-max. My wife had the same experience.

Re: ‘Breakthrough’ obesity drugs that have stunned researchers

#490
post #316

Thought experiment: A drug* that reduces people's weight and massively boosts physical fitness with no negative side effects is discovered. The discoverer of that drug declines to patent it, making it a cheap generic available everywhere. What would your reaction be? Take a moment to consider what your reaction is before continuing. ... The comments I'm reading here are diverse and fascinating. Weight loss, diet, and…

> Nutrition and fitness are classic examples of pseudo-science

I think it's pretty well agreed upon in the medical community (and proven) that a healthy diet (lots of fruit and vegetables, not too much sugar, etc) and regular exercise leads to better health. It's not pseudo-science. Neither is the statement that consuming more calories than you burn will make you put on weight.

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