Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#481

Post by sysihyk » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

mrxd wrote: post #104

I think misinformation and conspiracy theories on these platforms are a huge problem. A few years ago, some bad actors were successful in convincing Congress of a crazy conspiracy theory that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The results were far-reaching. The US violated the UN charter and launched a disastrous war in Iraq where millions of Iraqis were killed, injured and displaced. They used a platfor…

> crazy conspiracy theory that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction

Don't blame NYT, they are just like proverbial broken clock which displays correct time twice per day. WMDs from Hussein's stockpile were still used in Syrian War until recently by Baath Socialist militants, the pathway for sarin is pretty clear.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#482

Post by fidesomnes » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

p49k wrote: post #428

Socketier wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube isn't really the same. I've found that I can watch the things I want to fine without seeing a single political video being suggested.

I find the opposite; YouTube is on a constant mission to pull me into the world of right-wing videos with angry titles and antivax propaganda. If you browse YouTube with cookies disabled or within a cookie fence, you can see that such manipulation is the default behavior. For a significant percentage of videos, the very first set of suggestions is manipulative. For the others, perhaps the first set of suggestions is…

[dead]

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#483

Post by kumarvvr » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

mrjin wrote: post #448

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

Have always been curious why people use Facebook. Personally I don't believe most of my life should ever concern most of my connections(to be clear, the people I know and know me too), so don't event mention those I've no idea who. I know quite a few people who will take pictures of what ever they are doing and share. They might think they are doing something fancy, I can get that. But, how does that concern other pe…

True. Most people dont care about lives of people other than those in their immediate or important circle.

FB also realized this. Because, initially, FB was all about getting posts from friends. I suspect data revealed that this sort of algorithms created pockets of well connected people. Hardly any use to advertisers. So you have the FB that is what it is. A massive cesspool of shit.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#484

Post by fidesomnes » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #204

robbrown451 wrote: post #124

Whether or not what Facebook did was illegal and she technically qualifies as a "whistleblower", I salute her for what she has done and is doing by telling this story. People need to know about this, because it is harmful. This doesn't mean it should be illegal. But it is something people should consider if they go to work for Facebook (or other companies), and hopefully it will inspire people to do something about t…

The term whistleblower here is just a means to raise awareness for this information, which is good (not that it does much for the FB-reading population, besides those infatuated with following conspiracy theories).

oh the guy that has no idea what he is talking about, which is good.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#485

Post by md_ » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

mrxd wrote: post #104

I think misinformation and conspiracy theories on these platforms are a huge problem. A few years ago, some bad actors were successful in convincing Congress of a crazy conspiracy theory that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The results were far-reaching. The US violated the UN charter and launched a disastrous war in Iraq where millions of Iraqis were killed, injured and displaced. They used a platfor…

The big question, of course, is not whether media--mainstream or social--have ever "gotten it wrong", but what steps we can take to make them better.

The mainstream media very much got it wrong on Iraq. I agree with you. Yet the reality is more complex than your anti-elitist tirade suggests.

It's inconceivable to me that a well-functioning democracy can exist without trustworthy--and trusted--institutions who (yes) have an outsized influence on public opinion. The policy issues faced by citizens in a modern democracy are too complex to expect everyone to "do your own research."

So the question is, how do we foster those trusted institutions? How do we hold them to account when they go wrong? And how do we make them more deserving of our trust?

If the answer is, "We won't, but at least we'll have an algorithm that rewards CTR", well...I respectfully disagree.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#486

Post by realusername » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

barrenko wrote: post #469

GekkePrutser wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook was actually pretty good when it just showed me my friends posts and nothing else. But when they moved to their 'timeline' and started fiddling with algorithms that try to decide what I want to see, they got it all wrong and it became a chore to wade through it all. I don't understand how they think an algorithm can decide better what I want to see than me myself (by adding friend and blocking the ones that…

Same with Twitter.

Twitter is just an hopeless platform really, the combination of commenting out of context (everything is out of context), low character count, lack of scoping & zero moderation (beside the most illegal stuff) is just a recipe for disaster, you even have external websites to enable you to read threads... Unlike Facebook, I'm not even sure Twitter is fixable.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#487

Post by AlexandrB » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

I find this to be a problem with a lot of (all?) social media products. Lack of user control over the experience makes them less of a "bicycle for the mind" and more of a "chain gang for the advertisers".

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#488

Post by johnchristopher » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #431

taurath wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hit the nail on the head there. It’s impossible to actually get what was the damn promise of Facebook to begin with, and instead everyone gets practically drugged with crap because it makes Mark more money.

Facebook was actually pretty good when it just showed me my friends posts and nothing else. But when they moved to their 'timeline' and started fiddling with algorithms that try to decide what I want to see, they got it all wrong and it became a chore to wade through it all. I don't understand how they think an algorithm can decide better what I want to see than me myself (by adding friend and blocking the ones that…

Micro blogging was super cool.

A random feed of micro blogging posts/status that is not random but heavily leans toward resharing led to outrage porn addiction.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#489

Post by sbarre » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:23 PM UTC

IshKebab wrote: post #443

GekkePrutser wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook was actually pretty good when it just showed me my friends posts and nothing else. But when they moved to their 'timeline' and started fiddling with algorithms that try to decide what I want to see, they got it all wrong and it became a chore to wade through it all. I don't understand how they think an algorithm can decide better what I want to see than me myself (by adding friend and blocking the ones that…

Yeah Facebook was great back in 2006 when you only really had your friends on there. I think the real downfall was not that they added the timeline, it's that it's impolite to not accept friend requests from e.g. coworkers or relatives that you know but don't really care about. And then you end up with a news feed full of people you don't care about. I think by the time they added "unfollow" options everybody had mov…

> it's impolite to not accept friend requests from e.g. coworkers or relatives that you know but don't really care about.

This always confuses me. I feel like it's more impolite or disrespectful to be two-faced about this.

What's wrong with telling someone, politely, that you try to curate your social media and restrict it to personal friends and family?

If they get offended, is that not their fault? Should they not respect your boundaries?

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#490

Post by k4lk » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 1:23 PM UTC

lanevorockz wrote: post #401

k4lk wrote: post #230

It's an unfortunate but inevitable outcome of the attention economys race to the bottom. This area needs better regulation. The best approach is to stay out of technical implementation and focus on what principles companies should adhere to. As James Williams argue: it should be a civil right to have "freedom of chance". We already knew all too well what it does to our democracy that a large part of the public only g…

We are going the totalitarian route. Ministry of Truth will tell what numbers are legal and which ones are. Publishing data that goes against a narrative is a high crime punishable by Goolags. I know it might be news for the kids but this is a common practice in Socialist countries. The inflation rate is a hate number and banned from all platforms. Enforced by the Soviet Ministry of Truth called Pravda the russian tr…

Nonsense. We're currently doing nothing, equivalent of no route at all. We have regulations for many other areas - and for good reasons too. Saying there is a playing field is not at all totalitarian, and shouldn't really be seen as that extreme of an idea.

I also dont see why a notion of "freedom of chance" could not go both ways: "the totalitarian route" would offer equally little _chance__for the individual.