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Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

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Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#481

Post by [deleted] »

alickz wrote: post #118
JackFr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'gaol' always throws me for a loop when I'm reading something British. I need to remind myself it's pronounced 'jail'. (A quick google tells me that all the major British newspapers switched over to 'jail' by the 1990's - score one for the good guys!) I remember reading 'Mutiny on the Bounty' as a child and talking about it with my father and I said something about the 'boatswain', and he (a former naval officer) loo…

I've known the word boatswain for decades at this point and never knew it was pronounced like that! Speaking of military terms, lieutenant as "leftenant" always threw me. I had just assumed they were different words.

[deleted]

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#482

Post by alienthrowaway »

WalterBright wrote: post #413
throwaway894345 wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from a lower class background; I learned from early on to adapt my language to that of the upper/upper-middle class, and it has 1000% earned me more credibility than my intellect or experience deserve. This isn't to say that this kind of implicit classist gatekeeping is merited--it's not--but this is the reality of the world we live in. So the scenario in question is "someone trying to fit in with the upper class…

There are a lot more tells than vocabulary. There's accent, even tone. And, of course, there's the style of clothing, haircut, makeup, accessories, etc. Pretty much everything :-)

I think the idea is not to perfectly blend in, but to get closer to that circle by being more relatable.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#483

Post by projektfu »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #434
crazygringo wrote: post #415

> But this scenario doesn't fit with Serrano's experiences of English, where nonnative English speakers who learned the language in a classroom are often more educated on grammar rules and complex technical terms than American native speakers. In my experience as an EFL teacher living abroad in multiple countries... this is not even remotely accurate. English students across the world are often "taught" a ton of nons…

Isn't "I have a doubt" a way to say that you are not sure? Not that you do not understand it know, but that, well, you doubt. Like in "homeopathy is backed by science" to what someone would understandably say "I have a doubt" (in a mocking way in that case)

I had the impression the phrase was being used to interrupt a speaker to ask a question. In that case, it would sound odd to the average American, and insinuate that you thought they were wrong.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#484

Post by pessimizer »

fenomas wrote: post #392
pmoriarty wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education." There's the opposite problem, too, where people with poor educations will try to use fancy words to impress people (but often wind up just sounding pretentious). One of my pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize". Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. I…

> pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize" This battle is lost, but mine is "proceeded to". People seem to feel like it makes them sound more official - "He proceeded to enter the room, and he then proceeded to sit down." Once you start noticing it it's everywhere .

It's one of the things people do when they're making fun of cop-speak. Cops are the best example of people who are trying to make what they say sound official, but instead just make it long-winded and bizarre.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#485

Post by ncpa-cpl »

anotherhue wrote: post #112
chris_j wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (native English speaker) have noticed this a lot. The example that I remember most vividly is receiving advice while trying to cook food on a barbecue: A Portuguese speaking friend suggested that I "move the burgers to the periphery of the barbecue". It make perfect sense but sounded incredibly fancy to me. A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education.

An Italian friend of mine, when struggling to find the word for a Satellite Dish, called it a parabola. I was very impressed.

In Spanish we call them "antenas parábolicas".

I knew what a parabólica was as a child, but learnt the root of the word until high school math class.

I had a moment in math class when I thought... "So that's why it's called parabolica".

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#486

Post by viraptor »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #467
viraptor wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're in Bristol and notice how much the "should'ov" spelling becomes a thing.

I really think that "should have" is going to be replaced by "should of". It already is in most actual usage, and it's only "language snobs" (like me) who care that it shouldn't be used like that. I have the same feeling about "lose", which is increasingly spelled "loose". It annoys the living crap out of me, but in fairness English is whatever people say it is, and if people want to say it's "loose" then so be it. I…

> It annoys the living crap out of me, but in fairness English is whatever people say it is

That's about my position on it. "I'm a descriptivist, but this is just stupid, let's not go there."

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#487

Post by sangnoir »

crazygringo wrote: post #415

> But this scenario doesn't fit with Serrano's experiences of English, where nonnative English speakers who learned the language in a classroom are often more educated on grammar rules and complex technical terms than American native speakers. In my experience as an EFL teacher living abroad in multiple countries... this is not even remotely accurate. English students across the world are often "taught" a ton of nons…

> English students across the world are often "taught" a ton of nonsense grammatical rules that simply don't exist, or that are simplifications which don't always apply.

Hard disagree - I don't think your experience as an EFL teacher is relevant to places where english is an official language and is taught from their equivalent of K-12, like India (and many former colonies). EFL courses are far shorter, and not taught to similar depth - some former colonies use the same examination boards as UK students, so it's a far-cry from EFL.

English speakers in those places do not make mistakes that "native" speakers make, like writing "I should of done that" or say "on accident" because it's the opposite of "on purpose" - they simply accept that the rules don't make any sense. I'm not sayin they are better or perfect: they have their own class of mistakes they are prone to.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#488

Post by pessimizer »

myohmy wrote: post #369
tcgv wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, I'm from Brazil! The meaning is the same, both in Brazil and in Portugal. As a curiosity the two countries (along with others) are part of the Portuguese Language Orthographic Agreement of 1990 [1] whose purpose was to create a unified orthography for the Portuguese language, to be used by all the countries that have Portuguese as their official language. Nonetheless there is a lot of differences in usa…

Honestly we need the same for English.

No, our orthography is terrible. We should let it slip towards rationality in any of the tiny ways it tries.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#489

Post by golemiprague »

mwcampbell wrote: post #31

As a midwestern white American, I've certainly had prejudices based on people's accents, and I've probably misjudged whether someone was a "native" speaker. Having read this article, I will renew my efforts to fight those ugly prejudices. For a few years now, I've thought that the ideal work environment for encouraging diversity and inclusion would be an all-remote team that used only written communication, preferrin…

Why do you think diversity is important in any way? It is more of a meme than a proven scientific truth. It is much easier to function in an homogenous group of people and there are countless of examples for homogenous groups doing things and being a huge success.

Silicon valley was mainly straight white males, countless of music and dance styles was invented by African Americans, Japanese came with Nintedo and Anime and many other good things. These were all homogenous groups working together without too much friction to bring some good to this world.

So don't try too hard to "diversify" things, there is not much benefit in it, it is just a political meme.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#490

Post by pessimizer »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #446
kuang_eleven wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As is general true in English, there are a lot of idiomatic ways to say the same thing. I would probably say to move them "off to the edge" or just "to the edge". Confusingly, "off the edge" would not be correct, that would mean pushing them onto the ground!

Wouldn't you say "on the side"?

Almost never. I wouldn't even assume that a grill had a "side", I'd think it was just as likely to be round. I'd say "edge." Native speaker.
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