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Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

npr.org

411–420 of 576 posts

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Add to that the fact that my Polish teacher's explanation for many things is "there's no rule, you just have to learn what sounds right." In one case, if you have a masculine noun you must either add an a or a u on the end. There is no rule for which. I can only sympathise with you, but that is the thing. As native speaker you just know when the words sounds good or off. One good thing is that you can always read P…

"One good thing is that you can always read Polish words phonetically." Maybe you can... I can barely get through the first half of "skrzyżowanie" :)

I said that phonetically the pronunciation doesn't change not that its easy xD

Good luck, you will need it :D

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#412
post #259

Isn't this selection bias? It's like walking in on a flight to US, and seeing how poorly sloppy everyone is dressed. So you might assume that the US is some sort of third world country. But you would be wrong, because the US is rich enough that even the lower class can travel. So if you are talking with some native speaker, you just might be speaking with an idiot, because even idiots speak English as their first lan…

I don’t think the opposite of ”idiot” is ”well-educated” . And I also didn’t like the quoted person in the article that said they had to (my words) “dumb down” their technical conversation whenever an American entered the conversation or they wouldn’t understand the terms they were using. That is just arrogance and borderline xenophobism in my opinion. Neither the implication that speaking perfect grammar and knowing…

I just saw the word prepone for the first time last week. My boss, who is from India, used it. I had to look it up.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds more natural Weeeell, there's more to it than that. English has a rich vocabulary, why not use it? Just like there is more to a palette than primary colors, why restrict yourself? Me, I enjoy using "five dollar words" where they fit, I also enjoy inserting slang, obscure puns, deliberate misspellings, foreign words, all to add some texture and color. Wakarimasu ka? My father was felled by Alzheimers. What…

I'm from a lower class background; I learned from early on to adapt my language to that of the upper/upper-middle class, and it has 1000% earned me more credibility than my intellect or experience deserve. This isn't to say that this kind of implicit classist gatekeeping is merited--it's not--but this is the reality of the world we live in. So the scenario in question is "someone trying to fit in with the upper class…

There are a lot more tells than vocabulary. There's accent, even tone.

And, of course, there's the style of clothing, haircut, makeup, accessories, etc. Pretty much everything :-)

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#414

There is such a thing as Indian English, maybe not officially but it certainly exists and it does differ from British and American English. As a matter of fact, if you look up prepone in Wiktionary "prepone" is mentioned as being used in India, so it's not that weird that the teacher in the article used it. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prepone

A habit I've noticed among English-speaking Indians is ending chat sentences with "...!!!"

For example: "Good morning, Bob...!!!"

I would really like to know where it comes from. In my experience, they don't realize that "..." comes across as dramatic or passive-aggressive. The "!!!" part I assume is just meant to convey enthusiasm, but it comes across as very aggressive.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#415
> But this scenario doesn't fit with Serrano's experiences of English, where nonnative English speakers who learned the language in a classroom are often more educated on grammar rules and complex technical terms than American native speakers.

In my experience as an EFL teacher living abroad in multiple countries... this is not even remotely accurate.

English students across the world are often "taught" a ton of nonsense grammatical rules that simply don't exist, or that are simplifications which don't always apply.

I remember one interview at a school where the (non-native English speaker) director criticized me for ending a sentence with a preposition -- a classic "fake" rule.

I once reviewed an English test used for Citibank interviews, which I would have failed because a majority of the multiple-choice questions had more than one perfectly valid answer, but I guess not according to the overly simple grammar "rules" that were taught.

It actually can become a serious source of tension between foreign learners who are proud of the 10 years they spent in English classes and insist they therefore speak "correctly", while you the native speaker are making "mistakes".

I remember one memorable conversation where a work colleague tried to insist that something at the store was "costly", and wouldn't accept that the correct term was "expensive" (or just "costs too much"). The dictionary we had wasn't of much help either, since definitions often don't capture the actual subtleties of usage and connotation.

I also can't count the number of times actual (again, non-native) English teachers insisted it was correct to say "I have a doubt" rather than "I have a question" when you don't understand something... and often there's literally no convincing them, because how could their 10 years in the classroom and 20 years of teaching be wrong...?

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#416
post #72
post #26

As a non-native speaker, one fascinating phenomenon for me is the flip side to Uncleftish Beholding[1]. Many latinate words are considered more sophisticated, or fancier in general, than germanic words. Because I'm a native speaker of a Romance language, those are precisely the words that I reach for naturally, because they're familiar. What follows is that, past a certain threshold where your English is good enough,…

I (native English speaker) have noticed this a lot. The example that I remember most vividly is receiving advice while trying to cook food on a barbecue: A Portuguese speaking friend suggested that I "move the burgers to the periphery of the barbecue". It make perfect sense but sounded incredibly fancy to me. A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education.

Bear in mind that people tend to use periphrasis for concepts don't know or can't remember in the moment, which can end sounding fancy.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#417
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like the kind of phrase I would use as a mild joke while hanging out with someone. It's my sense of humor sometimes to be intentionally fancy because it sounds pretentious.

Someone please tell me what's the correct way of saying this

As is general true in English, there are a lot of idiomatic ways to say the same thing.

I would probably say to move them "off to the edge" or just "to the edge". Confusingly, "off the edge" would not be correct, that would mean pushing them onto the ground!

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from a lower class background; I learned from early on to adapt my language to that of the upper/upper-middle class, and it has 1000% earned me more credibility than my intellect or experience deserve. This isn't to say that this kind of implicit classist gatekeeping is merited--it's not--but this is the reality of the world we live in. So the scenario in question is "someone trying to fit in with the upper class…

There are a lot more tells than vocabulary. There's accent, even tone. And, of course, there's the style of clothing, haircut, makeup, accessories, etc. Pretty much everything :-)

One interesting tell that I might have heard in Jamie Johnson's documentary "Born Rich" was talk of holidays.

If you talk about holidaying with one's family in some exotic locale or of having a summer home in the Hamptons, the person you're speaking with can surmise that you're not poor.

The rich kids in that documentary also regularly go out to bars and think nothing of spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on champagne.

It's definitely not just about how one talks that signals to others that one is part of the upper class.. but once one is established as in the upper class, then things such as one's manner of speech might distinguish you.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#419
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the opposite of ”idiot” is ”well-educated” . And I also didn’t like the quoted person in the article that said they had to (my words) “dumb down” their technical conversation whenever an American entered the conversation or they wouldn’t understand the terms they were using. That is just arrogance and borderline xenophobism in my opinion. Neither the implication that speaking perfect grammar and knowing…

I just saw the word prepone for the first time last week. My boss, who is from India, used it. I had to look it up.

That's probably because it was invented by Indians speaking English in India. Its not illogical etymologically but there is no reason you should be expected to understand it.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/prepone

>Indian English

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#420
The author complains about being discriminated against because of his accent. Of course it's unfair, but there is a practical reason behind it.

The more someone's accent differs from what I'm used to, the more difficult it is for me to understand. I notice that on the phone, I can understand an accent like mine over a bad connection. The further one's accent is from mine, the better quality connection I need.

It's also significantly more work to understand a presentation the more distant the speaker's accent is. That means the less interesting the presentation is, the more likely I am to not make the effort.

It's not fair, but it's a fact of life.

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