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My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

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Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#481
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem is that only a tiny percentage of harassers and rapists are ever convicted." How can that be known? Why do you presume that someone is a harasser or rapist if they weren't convicted?

Less than 1% of rapes lead to felony convictions: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than... Same article notes that between 2-8% of rape complaints are false. Worries about false rape claims are wildly overblown.

How are these numbers even measurable?

> Less than 1% of rapes lead to felony convictions

We can measure the numerator here: it’s the number of felony rape convictions. But how do we measure the denominator? In some rape trials, the central question of fact is whether a rape occurred at all, or if the sexual encounter was consensual. If a rape trial leads to acquittal based on reasonable doubt over that question, is that alleged rape included in the denominator or not?

> Same article notes that between 2-8% of rape complaints are false.

So here’s a different question. If 2-8% of rape “complaints” are false, then clearly we aren’t counting these false accusations in the denominator for the 1% figure, are we? But what do we do with the cases we can’t determine with certainty either way?

One way of interpreting these numbers might be:

* 92-98% of rape accusations are not provably false.

* 1% of the remaining accusations are provably true. 1% of 98% is still roughly 1%, so we’ll round to 1% of all rape accusations are provably true.

* 91-97% of rape accusations can’t be proven.

Does this make sense? A 90% acquittal rate for rape cases? That seems way out of line with other criminal justice statistics. So at some point we’re including accusations that never even result in charges being filed due to lack of evidence, and possibly accusations that are never brought to the criminal justice system in the first place. In either case, this vast majority of cases is legally indeterminate: neither conclusively proven to be rapes committed by a specific suspect, nor conclusively proven to be false accusations.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that rape occurs because someone’s parents didn’t tell them not to or that they would not rape if their parents HAD told them not to do it?

Please don't put words in other people's mouths either. I think it's clear from GP's post that that's NOT what they were implying.

Then can you explain how “it’s time to teach our boys to become kind men” is relevant to the original discussion?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#483
post #113

Yes, of course she should have contacted law enforcement, but she was in a foreign country, intimated and young. And law enforcement still fails women: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/how-po... In an ideal world, the criminal justice system works. In the real world, it's a patchwork system that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/09/17...…

She should have agency to have her complaint heard, not an obligation to deal with police. Aside, she has claimed that he took advantage of her and that he harassed her - not that he assaulted her.

In the United States, sexual assault includes coercion:

Sexual assault covers a wide range of unwanted behaviors—up to but not including penetration—that are attempted or completed against a victim's will or when a victim cannot consent because of age, disability, or the influence of alcohol or drugs. Sexual assault may involve actual or threatened physical force, use of weapons, coercion, intimidation, or pressure and may include: ...

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/overview-rape-and-sexual...

Sexual coercion is unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a nonphysical way. Coercion can make you think you owe sex to someone. It might be from someone who has power over you, like a teacher, landlord, or a boss. No person is ever required to have sex with someone else.

https://www.womenshealth.gov/relationships-and-safety/other-...

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

"What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?" This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person.

People don't go to jail without reason. Therefore everyone in jail is guilty.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 but especially our boys. Girls and women already learn so much about how to avoid being harmed by men. It’s time for our boys to learn how to become kind men - and for those of us who are men to model that for them.

Are you implying that rape occurs because someone’s parents didn’t tell them not to or that they would not rape if their parents HAD told them not to do it?

[deleted]

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#486
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Therefore the court of public opinion is the only court that has solid jurisdiction, so to speak. based on what his public info shows about his location this medium post (and the ensuing public outrage) cops in that country will have to press charges (in case they haven't been pressed already). There is a high chance he is a flight risk so they will book him, _unless_: - he is actually a passport holder of that cou…

I think there are a few problems with this: Another commenter mentions somewhere here that the specific thing that happened may not have been illegal in Germany then (but is now). I don't know how to verify that as I don't speak German. This happened several years ago; there is no physical evidence that remains. This, as you allude to, is a he-said-she-said situation. I assume there are emails/texts/etc. that might s…

> there is no physical evidence that remains

not needed, she has plenty of people who can coroborate her story and even somebody who stepped forward as another victim. impossible to ignore under German law.

> Maybe it would be in Germany or the UK, but I suspect not.

it is most certainly prosecuted in Germany as I've indicated. I can't promise he'll get a conviction but he certainly would get his time in "U-Haft" given he presents a flight risk.

I agree that the chances of Pretty having the stomache to come after her with libel charges are remote. But if what she says is the truth then she shouldn't have anything to fear. She has people who said this happened to them too and others who saw things. It would all be very hard to ignore.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

"What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?" This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person.

> This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person.

Or you associate with or are attracted to terrible people

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this remove agency from women? If two adults get together, fly together, get a room together, drink wine together, have relations... Then we're supposed to say that consent can't be given because the woman is drunk. But they're both drunk. Isn't it essentially the patriarchy to say that a woman can't make that choice? Like if they're equals and they're both drunk, why do we blame the men? Because they aren't…

At least here in California (and presumably much of the US) the threshold isn't merely intoxication. It's intoxication to the point that someone is incapable of consent. Not impaired judgment or above the legal driving limit, but drunk to the point that they are not even capable of giving a yes/no. If two people are drunk and have sex, evidently at least one of them was capable of consent because they had the capacit…

Thanks for the clarification, I didn't know that.

So neither of them would classify, in this story?

So it was just two consenting adults, and the part about wine was... Flavor text, essentially? Unless she was saying she was unconscious and I missed it.

I thought the implication there was essentially that she couldn't give consent, which is a rape accusation - that's very serious. But it doesn't sound like either of them would pass the bar for inability to give consent?

Unless I read it wrong.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this remove agency from women? If two adults get together, fly together, get a room together, drink wine together, have relations... Then we're supposed to say that consent can't be given because the woman is drunk. But they're both drunk. Isn't it essentially the patriarchy to say that a woman can't make that choice? Like if they're equals and they're both drunk, why do we blame the men? Because they aren't…

At least here in California (and presumably much of the US) the threshold isn't merely intoxication. It's intoxication to the point that someone is incapable of consent. Not impaired judgment or above the legal driving limit, but drunk to the point that they are not even capable of giving a yes/no. If two people are drunk and have sex, evidently at least one of them was capable of consent because they had the capacit…

People have the capacity to initiate all sorts of stupid things when they are too intoxicated to consent to anything legally.
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