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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#481

Post by brigade »

hobofan wrote: post #400
floatingatoll wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

How are there multiple people here in the thread that say that the port on the Switch is not a USB-C port, when it says so in the official specs _right on their website_? https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs

Probably a corruption of the fact that the protocol to get HDMI out of the Switch is a proprietary alt-mode, which is why standard docks and USB-C to HDMI adapters don't work. But USB-PD chargers are very much intended to work.

The docks that do work generally reversed-engineered the proprietary protocol, and some have damaged Switches because they got details wrong.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#482

Post by qwerty456127 »

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Sharing a charger isn't the only cool thing. Being able to attach an ordinary USB-C thumb drive to an iPad is a very useful too. If only computers (including MacBooks and desktop PCs) had more (2 is never enough) full-featured (Thunderbolt-enabled) USB-C ports (and didn't give up built-in SD card readers) that would really be awesome.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#483

Post by qwerty456127 »

floatingatoll wrote: post #235
mikepurvis wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't actually own a Switch, but my partner and I both charge our laptops (mine a Dell XPS, hers a MacBook) from the same after-market USB-C charging bricks. I don't love that it's like this, but basically the product page just lists every known-to-work device, including Nintendo Switch: https://www.amazon.ca/Charger-Adapter-Replacement-Thinkpad-M... Now, I'm a cheapskate, so most of my electronics are older device…

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

> The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices.

Why? Why was it so hard for them to implement USB-C the proper way? Why were they allowed (and why did they want) to use patented USB-C plugs if they didn't want to actually implement USB-C? The only explanation I can come up with is they intended to earn money from repairing.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#484

Post by Gibbon1 »

Goronmon wrote: post #384
mcv wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this just underscores what a terrible standard USB-C is. You have no idea what's what anymore by looking at it. Everything seems to fit together, but if you do it, you damage your devices. It would have been better if they'd launched another dozen different plug standards. In situations when there's only one thing you should be connecting to your device, that's the way to go. Universal sockets only make sense…

All of this just underscores what a terrible standard USB-C is. Nothing above seems related to the standard. At the end of the day, its still comes down to the manufacturers to follow the standard in order for everything to to work. But the standard itself can't stop any particular manufacturer from making a non-compliant product.

It's a bad standard if shorting adjacent pins fries equipment. That the people created a standard like that means they aren't competent to create these sort of standards.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#485

Post by laksdjfkasljdf »

This is not a USB-C problem.

Manufacturers treating users as stupid is the problem. USB-C is only one aspect.

If you look at specs from Apple, Nintendo and random-knock of brands from aliba.com, you will see that they only mention the ports. nothing else. Apple will sometime use a vague spec, like the wattage.

Now look at USB-C specs from HP and other more reputable sources. They will specify all the PD profiles, which thunderbolt version is supported, how many lanes, etc.

The same happens with WiFi devices. You will be lucky if lesser brands even mention the protocol, let alone antennae and MIMO details!

Same can be said of Bluetooth (from cars to headsets!) which will not say if they implement a specific profile or not, but will plaster "BLUETOOTH 5.0" on the box.

The irony, is that consumers see Apple and other offenders as having better products. Just look at this thread on how the very top voted comment is someone glad that it is convenient, even though the first reply to it is trying to explain how they can fry their devices, only to be replied by someone saying "i don't care, it worked fine with the one charger i tried".

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#486

Post by oefnak »

Waterluvian wrote: post #7
julianlam wrote: post #3

Sometimes it seems like I'm the only person with absolutely zero issues with USB-C. I have a Lenovo monitor that delivers power+HDMI+usbhub to my laptop, and having to only plug one thing in to access all my peripherals is amazing. I used a bog standard Anker USB-C cable for this.

I’m sure for some it’s a nightmare worthy of writing about, but yeah I’ve never had a problem. I love that USB-C trivially expanded my laptop to having two DisplayPort devices so I can run 3 4K screens at 60hz

What laptop do you have that does 3×4K@60Hz? Is it loud?

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#487

Post by Dylan16807 »

rolobio wrote: post #260
vr46 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off t…

From my research a few years ago, this is caused by the Switch asking the charger for 20V, but it actually expects 15V. The Nintendo charger obeys this hidden rule, but any other charger will happily provide 20V. I think the difference between a 20V and 15V charge isn't significant enough to blow the Switch up the first time you use it, but, over time it will blow up.

I would love to read more about this, but are you sure that's right?

I know the switch gets the spec wrong in a few places, but there is only one thing I have heard about that causes damage, and that is knockoff chargers that grossly overvolt the data pin used for power negotiation.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#488

Post by hinkley »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #376
hinkley wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or spring for a monitor with thunderbolt on it, and ditch the dongle or move it to a permanent location behind the monitor. I am currently waiting for thunderbolt 4 support to upgrade my other monitor, so can have a hub in there somewhere instead of some devices plugged into each monitor.

> Or spring for a monitor with thunderbolt on it I mean if you can suggest one that actually does that I’ll get right on pestering my work for one. But considering the fact they bought the basically useless base model MacBook “pro” I don’t fancy my chances.

It appears that in the last 6 months the average price of TB3 displays has gone up (I'm seeing a lot of 5k models on offer).

My selection is the same price, and instead of being near the top of the pack, it's near the bottom. Might have something to do with Apple's re-entry into the market at such a high price point.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#489

Post by Dylan16807 »

cameronh90 wrote: post #118
vr46 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off t…

I charge my Switch with various USB PD chargers (mostly Anker but also Apple, Google and others) and haven't had a problem so far. I was trying to find some information about what would cause PD-compliant chargers to fry the Switch. It appears that while the switch is PD-compliant itself, they used a slightly non-standard connector that reduces tolerances and could, in some situations (most likely worn cables) cause…

> It appears that while the switch is PD-compliant itself, they used a slightly non-standard connector that reduces tolerances and could, in some situations (most likely worn cables) cause some pins to electrically bridge and fry the port.

I'm pretty sure that's the dock that has a slightly nonstandard plug, not the switch itself.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#490

Post by ses1984 »

freeone3000 wrote: post #125
ses1984 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a consequence of consolidating on a single connector format. It doesn't make economic sense for every cable with the same connector to support the same power or data rates. Sometimes you just need a phone charging cable, sometimes you want to charge and drive a laptop at over 100w, and sometimes you need to carry 4k60hz hdr video over 10ft which is pretty dang hard.

So now we're in a world where the cables have different functionality, but you can't tell them apart. So you have to keep the cable with the device it came with and you lose the benefit of having the single connnector format entirely!

We're in a world where if you have a high speed cable designed for 4k60p HDR, in a pinch you can also use it to charge your phone. In a pinch you can also use it for a data transfer. In a pinch, you can also use your charging cable to transmit 720p video.

The cables should be marked, if they are not marked with their capability then buy them from another vendor that does mark them.

It's no different than ethernet cables, they all look the same, they could be cat5, cat5e, cat6, etc.

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