Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–485 of 485 posts

Re: Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned

#481

Post by secondcoming »

ptmvp wrote: post #381
secondcoming wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was talk in at least the London tech scene two or three years ago about Lisbon becoming some sort of tech hub. (Personally, I'd love to move there but I'd have to learn Portuguese) But some companies that did try Lisbon out seem to have pulled back. Last I heard it a large reason was because the 'work ethic' of the Portuguese left something to be desired compared to London.

This comment is not only based on anedotical evidence, but demonstrably wrong [0] (compare hours worked between Portugal and the UK - these are significantly higher in Portugal) and perpetuating stereotypes with regards to Southern European countries. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_average_annual_labor...

I'm quite sure I did not present it as a fact. It's just the feedback I got from folk who tried it out. YMMV.

Re: Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned

#482

Post by dahauns »

fidelramos wrote: post #476
dahauns wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er...I might be misunderstanding something here - but it literally does? Something like tax rates statistics wouldn't tell you whether those taxes are actually paid - but tax revenue statistics do exactly this.

I will provide a clarifying example: Imagine a person in Portugal has a 1000€ salary, and the state takes 40%, the person has 600€ to live. A person in Germany gains 3000€, the state takes 60%, the person has 1200€, double the Portuguese. Cost of living in Germany is higher, but not twice that much. And the cost of living already factors in some taxes, such as VAT, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Ah, now I understand what you meant with "effort", i.e. that the disposable income after taxes normalized for purchasing power would be lower in Portugal than e.g. in Sweden, right?

Hm...that's a good point actually - net PPP-adjusted household displosable income is definitely lower in Portugal: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/income/

Re: Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned

#483

Post by Xixi »

iguy wrote: post #441
Xixi wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you negotiate a deal with the highest authority in Ireland to access the entirety of the EU Single Market, then yes indeed you should care about EU laws. It's not like Apple is only selling iPhones in Ireland... If you sign a deal with Nevada to sell products in the entirety of the United States, you expect federal laws to apply, don't you? Well, EU is not a federation like the Unites States, but it's half-way the…

But nobody in Nevada thinks that it is a country. And there is no pretence that its government is free to negotiate international matters (let alone run an army, have its own language, or even hold a referendum on abortion). > hard to grasp for non-European. And to be fair, for most Europeans too Yes, I think the degree to which this thing is a super-state (or at least claims to be one) not a trade club is not fully…

Given how the Supreme Court decision on abortion has come under fire, I would argue that a lot of American citizens believe that Nevada should in fact be able to to hold a referendum on abortion...

About the EU, "The European Union is a unique economic and political union between 27 EU countries" [1] Who believes it's just a trade club? I'm born in France, grew up in France, and never thought of the EU as just a free trade zone. It's a weird belief to me, and obviously not one anchored in any kind of reality. But that might simply be because it hasn't been sold that way to French citizens, maybe Irish people were told otherwise?

But forget about the EU. When Apple setup its European headquarter in Ireland, it's to sell its goods in all of Europe, what we call the Single Market. The Single Market is not the EU. Apple could have set up its European headquarter in Iceland or Norway, countries that are outside of the EU, yet inside the Single Market. And the same European laws would still apply. These laws are not the rules of the EU, they are the rules of the trade club.

When you enter a member of the Single Market specifically with the purpose of selling to all the members of the club, you can't play dumb and claim you didn't know that the rules of the clubs applied to you.

If Ireland wants to leave the Single Market, it can do so freely. It could even leave the EU without leaving the Single Market if it so wishes, but the rules of the Single Market would then still apply. Trying to stay within the Single Market while ditching its rules is, as demonstrated very thoroughly by the UK, completely impossible.

[1] https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-in-brief_en#fro...

Re: Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned

#484

Post by nickpp »

pietrovismara wrote: post #467
nickpp wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the mindset I operate under and it served me well. What is your belief system and how well did that work out for you?

My belief is that not everyone has the same opportunities for a variety of reasons and even if something might work for me it might very well be impossible for others. I also believe that it is our duty as society to make sure everyone can have a decent life even when not granted the same privileges others get for free. Assuming everyone can put in the hard work and make it, you imply that everyone has or can learn "…

Best way to make raise employee's wages: competition between employers. For that we need more employers. For that we need more startups. For that we need more founders and entrepreneurs.

Competition is great, but at all levels.

Wealth creation is not zero-sum. Read PG's essay: http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html

Also some investment books: "A Random Walk Down Wall Street" "Rich Dad Poor Dad" "The Millionaire Next Door" https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Bogleheads%C2%AE_investment_...

Have fun learning!

Re: Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned

#485

Post by splintercell »

yashap wrote: post #470
splintercell wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"virtually no impact on the person or corporation" How do you conclude that? Come to my house and take away anything you think has no impact on me , how are you concluding that this has no impact on anything? This is all bad thinking. Apple is holding a cash Reserve with 250 billion dollar, and you seem to know why instead of distributing it to their shareholders they are stocking it. Similarly, you apparently know w…

You can look up economic studies on the marginal utility (satisfaction/benefit) of wealth for an individual, and it’s absolutely the consensus that it declines rapidly the more you have. Take $100,000 from a middle class person, and you have a massive negative impact on their life. Take $100,000 from a billionaire, and the impact is basically nothing. It’s similar with businesses - the more wealth they have, the less…

> You can look up economic studies on the marginal utility (satisfaction/benefit) of wealth for an individual, and it’s absolutely the consensus that it declines rapidly the more you have.

They are all based on complete and utter misunderstanding of what 'marginal utility' means.

If Jeff Bezos is planning to cure old age with his 1 Trillion dollars, then the marginal utility of an additional $100 million for him would be a lot more than to an underemployed barista with a $100k debt which will be wiped off with that money whereas Bezos would get to live forever with that money. So which one has a higher marginal utility, that $100 million for Bezos or it given to other individuals.

That doesn't mean that the study should have asked what they wanted to do with that money, but that these things aren't comparable at all to each other. This is just a roundabout way to justify taxation.

Post reply on HN