Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows • Hacker News Board

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#481

Post by Meekro » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #207

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> getting married and starting a family This assumes people really want to do that. Children are too expensive unless you have a lot of resources already. I think if costs of basic living keep increasing the future is increasingly childless for many people.

I'm 30, and I only know one person in my peer group whom owns a home, and he can only afford it because it's way out in the boonies. If people my age find things like home ownership out of reach, having children becomes a roadblock and therefore becomes undesirable.

Where do you live? I'm in Houston, a place with a low cost of living relative to California. I'm in my early 30s, and I know lots of people aged 25-35 who are marrying, buying homes, and having kids.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#482

Post by whytaka » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #468

whytaka wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Romantic relationships don't cure anger nor violence. I can honestly pinpoint you the day my life changed forever for the better. It's the day I lost my virginity. That one moment where I felt myself being accepted made me realize I was good enough. Ever since then, I'd become less angry, more confident, more loving of myself, more charitable towards other people's insecurities instead of positioning myself higher…

Had you had "very aggressive behavior" before then and turned into non aggressive person by single sex act? That would be a.) unusual and not confirmed by any study b.) honestly still too much risk for an individual to get into relationship.

I would definitely say I had a much more toxic attitude towards others before. I recall back then fantasizing about violence, either self-inflicted or unto others.

While I'm sure there may be many studies that illustrate the continued abusive behaviour of men who have romantic relationships, I ask myself whether it's possible to show how many men would've been otherwise angry and aggressive had they not experienced acceptance earlier in their lives.

And perhaps I have not specifically addressed your point that it is risky to date known angry people. And I am sure you are right about that.

The point I was making however is more about being a very young man, the insecurities felt as a teenager, the moments that can change the trajectories of their lives, before they become truly angry men. I only hope that other insecure young men could experience that kind of relief from anxiety as I did.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#483

Post by akvadrako » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #24

tharne wrote: post #12

They buried the lede here. > Sexual activity was largely unchanged among unmarried women, along with no notable decline among gay men, researchers reported. Basically sex is following the pattern of wealth. Men as a group aren't having less sex, instead there's a winner take all effect where a small number of men are having a lot of sex with a lot of women while a large number of men are having little to no sex. It'l…

I don't have data for this but I believe that legal polygamy is a big contributor to political extremism. Sexual frustration leads to inferiority complexes that result in aggression against the norm. As an example I see the Middle East where polygamy is not unheard of and the rise of the Islamic State or the Taliban. Would be interesting if anybody has data on this.

My understanding is that one of the main reasons religion was so important to the success of societies was it’s control over sex.

What worked best for most places was monogamy. With a partner men are more likely to use their energy for their family instead of antisocial tendencies.

This isn’t my theory; I think the technical term is “enforced monogamy” if you want to find data.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#484

Post by cy_hauser » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #229

eigenvalue wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is exactly right. Apps like Tinder that normalized online "dating" (before the apps it was much less common among younger people) have allowed the "apex predator" men with good jobs/looks/personalities to have sex on demand with virtually unlimited numbers of women. This has also been made possible because a lot more women are now willing to be in non-exclusive sexual relationships at the beginning when…

You say forced to settle, but why is it that women never get to "grow up" in this scenario?

I'd suggest they're synonymous in this scenario.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#485

Post by luckylion » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #471

luckylion wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Them being defective is a problem we can only address by making mental health services more available not by fixing imaginary social problems. I feel like 100% of your comments in this thread could be applied to any current social justice protests and they would be just as out of place, but you'd get shot down. There are studies, there's data, but for you it appears being able to imagine other reasons has more weig…

Incel communities absent moderation devolve quickly into hate for women, imaginary "facts", and veneration for acts of terrorism and murder. Those who promote the same fake facts as say the kkk but don't directly call for lynching arouse the same visceral reaction if you recognize the similarities. It is exactly like visiting a white supremacist online community with a different target population.

> Incel communities absent moderation devolve quickly into hate for women, imaginary "facts", and veneration for acts of terrorism and murder.

Right, right, but nothing like that has happened here, yet you've imagined, shall we say, alternative facts as possible explanations of what has been scientifically studied. Why?

> It is exactly like visiting a white supremacist online community with a different target population.

To be honest, you sound like one, only with a slightly different perspective. They'd replace "incel" with "nigger" and spout pretty much the same stuff. If you showed them studies on police violence, they'd say "Maybe that isn't real and many in fact are just criminals", making up some random thing that may or may not explain something (without offering any statistics, of course, and ignoring statistics that suggest the opposite) and speak of "imaginary social issues".

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#486

Post by tootahe45 » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

pkaye wrote: post #151

tootahe45 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It'll be interesting to see what happens in 5-10 years What is already happening in rich parts of Asia. Tons of pissed off women with no kids who want to raise your taxes.

> who want to raise your taxes. Why do they want to raise taxes?

You'd have to ask them. But when you look at their voting patterns it's hard to deny it.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#487

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #453

downerending wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this among the young men in my extended family and friends. One guy is model cute, and goes out on Tinder "dates" whenever he wants (new girl weekly, at least). He had a live-in girlfriend, but with an open relationship. And if I were one of these women, I'd probably do the same thing. Even if you can't marry a hottie, if you can have sex with one a few times, that still sounds like fun. The other guys,…

The advice to the normal guy in this scenario is to stop smoking pot and hit the gym. That will make up for a lot.

[deleted]

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#488

Post by foogazi » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

Frost1x wrote: post #419

thanhhaimai wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption that a "foreign girl" is easier to get is both offensive and wrong. Given the ratio of men and women in Asian culture for example, it's a much crowder competition space. That's even more true considering the fact that a large percentage of those Asian women in the US are either highly educated, or from wealthy families that sent them study abroad. They look for partners who are equally educated/success…

>The assumption that a "foreign girl" is easier to get is both offensive and wrong. I don't think that assessment is wrong or offensive (although I wouldn't say "foreign"). I think a lot of the problem is culturally related. I've had far better relationships with people I've dated outside of typical white middle class US culture. US parents often inflate egos to absurd levels, set unrealistic relationship expectation…

> US parents often inflate egos to absurd levels, set unrealistic relationship expectations, and frequently create terrible personalities

Did someone inflate your ego?

> especially for their daughters

Oh, I have a daughter and the message I tell her is “there are 1,000s of guys out there that would love to go out with you, don’t settle”

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#489

Post by selimthegrim » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

whytaka wrote: post #443

watwut wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but I can treat people as human without putting myself in danger. I can treat a guy as human without entering romantic relationship. Romantic relationships don't cure anger nor violence. But, women who believe so are the typical domestic abuse victim. They date guys thinking they will change them and blaming themselves for abuse. I mean, abuse is a real thing (and both genders do abuse). But someone who can get…

> Romantic relationships don't cure anger nor violence. I can honestly pinpoint you the day my life changed forever for the better. It's the day I lost my virginity. That one moment where I felt myself being accepted made me realize I was good enough. Ever since then, I'd become less angry, more confident, more loving of myself, more charitable towards other people's insecurities instead of positioning myself higher…

You're saying even if the sex was objectively bad in comparison with what you had later you still felt this way?

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#490

Post by zajio1am » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #128

vsareto wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a powder keg because we really don't suffer as a society if the excluded men don't get to have kids.

That's not how it's worked out in any society where family formation has been limited for large numbers of young men. The research on the calming effect of family formation on young men is very straightforward: when a population of young men doesn't have the opportunity to form families, _they_ become the powder keg. It's true at multiple scales, from individual criminality to societal unrest.

> when a population of young men doesn't have the opportunity to form families, _they_ become the powder keg. It's true at multiple scales, from individual criminality to societal unrest.

Well, perhaps videogames and internet porn (both inaccessible in the past) could workaround that now ...