Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads • Hacker News Board

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#481

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

emj wrote: post #469

TeMPOraL wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our laws allow for two types of paternity leave; one is 14 days, the other is 6 weeks for a single child and taking it reduces mother's maternity leave. This makes it impossible for a man to play shenanigans that make them stay on leave while employed for couple years. Definitely there's a lot of work to be done on parenting in Poland, both in regulatory and social fashion. Currently it's a tension between the tradit…

I'm not sure what "play shenanigans" means in this context, but it seems out of context? I agree that the laws and socialnorms surrounding the care of children are complex. But being able to spend time with my children was of immense value to me, and as you said it allowed my partner to have a very productive career.

By "play shenanigans" I meant what I described about how it commonly works in Poland - a mother going on an early health leave, followed by a year of maternity leave, followed by another pregnancy, rinse repeat. Basically, intentionally stacking planned pregnancies in a way that maximally exploits a single employer.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#482

Post by lawnchair_larry » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 9:02 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #480

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The narrative that a boys club consciously conspired to take any jobs is quite a silly one.

Conscious or unconscious is really irrelevant. There was a time that nobody would have considered education peasants. It was not a conscious bias. Times have changed and will continue to do so, we need to do what we can to correct the mistakes of the past.

It’s quite relevant. The point is nobody pushed anyone out.

Independent autonomous people making decisions about which field they would like to study and seek employment in is not a mistake that needs correcting.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#483

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #424

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imbalance is bad because participation in civil society, to include employment, should be representative of society as a whole. Besides, inclusive and diverse workforces have been repeatedly shown to be better for the bottom line because organizations are more able to serve a wider market when they are made up people more representative of the total market. Revenue for the division I work in at my current employer ex…

Imbalance is bad because participation in civil society, to include employment, should be representative of society as a whole. But why? I understand the point that diverse workforce leads to diverse ideas. But will fifty women per hundred employees produce five times more diverse ideas than, say, ten women? Hiring women just for the sake of hiring women looks like a cargo cult.

You are being deliberately disingenuous.

The post you're replying to specifically claims that it is to make employment more representative of the whole of society. Your statement that it's "hiring women just for the sake of hiring women" completely ignores the very words you're quoting.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#484

Post by pnutjam » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:52 AM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #482

pnutjam wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conscious or unconscious is really irrelevant. There was a time that nobody would have considered education peasants. It was not a conscious bias. Times have changed and will continue to do so, we need to do what we can to correct the mistakes of the past.

It’s quite relevant. The point is nobody pushed anyone out. Independent autonomous people making decisions about which field they would like to study and seek employment in is not a mistake that needs correcting.

Your ignoring history. The ones making the decisions pushed them out. The ones doing the hiring, not the women deciding what to do.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#485

Post by llampx » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 8:56 AM UTC

merb wrote: post #380

tapland wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But selection usually happens way before that. Probably at latest in middle school.

In germany it even happens before. parenting has a real impact on any child. it starts with the color of their cloths. some people really live the old way and belive and tell their boys that boys don't cry and they don't wear certain colors, etc. while girls need to behave girly wear nice looking cloths, etc. and then when it comes to homework they try to push their childs in certain directions. or tell/force their c…

If parenting had such an impact, there would be no female software engineers in/from India, and many in/from the US and Western Europe.

The reality is pretty much the opposite, with Eastern Europeans, Indians and Chinese being overrepresented in software engineering and higher degrees in STEM subjects.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#486

Post by llampx » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #369

llampx wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I started to study IT, I was surprised to see, that the stereotypes were the majority. Meaning, long, oily hair, etc. Do you realize how this comment would come off if you were talking about women and judging them for their appearance when they went to school to study something utterly unrelated to appearance?

Tell me. I believe body hygiene is wanted in all professions. (btw. my hair is long, too)

"Long, oily hair" is not really saying anything about body hygiene though.

Re: Employers Used Facebook to Keep Women and Older Workers from Seeing Job Ads

#487

Post by hmry » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

captainredbeard wrote: post #428

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex is a federally protected class[1]. Discrimination in employment decisions based on any federally protected class is illegal, and can carry rather large fines. Using a job board that explicitly discriminates based on a protected class is a very, very risky idea. If a member of the untargeted portion of the class (a male) sees a job ad there and is denied employment they have very good evidence for a sex discrimina…

Unfortunately, the Department of Justice chooses to not enforce this law when the offending objective is to hire anything but white males. It should be enforced equally.

Do you have any sources for that?