Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality • Hacker News Board

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#481

Post by natural219 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

JamesLeonis wrote: post #453

m00n wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never quite got my head around the value proposition for distributed ledgers in logistics ('smart warehouses / supply chains') and manufacturing ('industry 4.0'). Say you want to trace eco paper rolls around the globe. What could the blockchain do for you? Who are the nodes/miners/coins in this application? When you suspect some intermediate in the paper chain to exchange eco paper for cheaper ordinary paper, how d…

Logistics are a great place for this technology, but first you must purge your mind of Cryptotokens and their economics. They aren't applicable for a logistics use case. To understand this, first you have to understand why we structure mining. In the case of Bitcoin or Ethereum, you need a method that allows any arbitrary computational device to verify and add to a given blockchain. In lieu of trusting that device, t…

I'd love to read more about this if you or someone else has written about it in-depth. I'm still not clear on the connection between "mining" (spending computing power) and the type of work that logistics professionals do when verifying parts of your supply chain.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#482

Post by drak0n1c » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 8:06 PM UTC

zodiac wrote: post #475

drak0n1c wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hedera Hashgraph recently revealed that it supports more than a million transactions per second based on current usage by developers, that's enough to support decentralized servers and open source MMO environments. It uses gossip protocol and a form of voting protocol. 1) Non-technical friendly overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzWiiOLv96I 2) https://www.hederahashgraph.com

A non sharded public blockchain that doesn't do some kind of validator delegation will always be bottlenecked by a single validators computational capacity, which is on the order of 100-1000. Hedera is really pushing the line on making fraudulent claims here.

Hashgraph doesn't use blockchain - look into interviews with Dr Baird if you're interested. MachineZone, the big game company, is now building on Hashgraph:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hedera-hashgraph-co...

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#483

Post by zodiac » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:14 PM UTC

drak0n1c wrote: post #482

zodiac wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A non sharded public blockchain that doesn't do some kind of validator delegation will always be bottlenecked by a single validators computational capacity, which is on the order of 100-1000. Hedera is really pushing the line on making fraudulent claims here.

Hashgraph doesn't use blockchain - look into interviews with Dr Baird if you're interested. MachineZone, the big game company, is now building on Hashgraph: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hedera-hashgraph-co...

I am aware of their architecture. How does it circumvent the bound?

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#484

Post by JamesLeonis » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 3:29 AM UTC

natural219 wrote: post #481

JamesLeonis wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logistics are a great place for this technology, but first you must purge your mind of Cryptotokens and their economics. They aren't applicable for a logistics use case. To understand this, first you have to understand why we structure mining. In the case of Bitcoin or Ethereum, you need a method that allows any arbitrary computational device to verify and add to a given blockchain. In lieu of trusting that device, t…

I'd love to read more about this if you or someone else has written about it in-depth. I'm still not clear on the connection between "mining" (spending computing power) and the type of work that logistics professionals do when verifying parts of your supply chain.

Mining, or intentional computational busywork, is one method of allowing anonymous transaction processors, uh, process transactions. A logistics system does not need anonymous transactors; it can rely on it's own network of trust. A logistics solution is much more like Proof of Stake model, where reputation is the collateral instead of a fictional financial token.

In this model, I'll refer to it as Proof of Reputation (PoR), an actor might be a certified as a reputable party in the network. You might be a certified producer of bananas, verified and certified as fair trade and humane organic hand-crafted conditions by other organizations. I'm a buyer of bananas, but I want to make sure I'm buying fair trade bananas. I can look at your certification-of-origin and verify that you are reputable as fair trade. A port authority can confirm that I bought your bananas and put them on the USS Boaty McBoatface destined for Los Angeles to meet the huge banana split market. You as a consumer can check these certifications at the store.

As it stands, all of these processes operate haphazardly and it's insanely difficult for major countries to coordinate and verify what is going on. The coordination technologies, like Ethereum's GHOST implementation, combined with public-key infrastructure helps reduce the "deadlock" time of coordinating these large public and private bureaucracies.

I know I'm not explaining this well. I'm still working on a more concrete model. In my mind the process of creating, signing, and verifying a cryptotoken transaction is eerily similar to what logistics management is all about. You need to prove the origin, verify they made the transaction, and then have a reputable actor process said transaction. There's still a lot of manual work, but the system of sharing and coordinating that work is also painful and manual. The technologies that power cryptotokens can help with the latter problem.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#485

Post by amorphous » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 8:43 AM UTC

JamesLeonis wrote: post #453

m00n wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never quite got my head around the value proposition for distributed ledgers in logistics ('smart warehouses / supply chains') and manufacturing ('industry 4.0'). Say you want to trace eco paper rolls around the globe. What could the blockchain do for you? Who are the nodes/miners/coins in this application? When you suspect some intermediate in the paper chain to exchange eco paper for cheaper ordinary paper, how d…

Logistics are a great place for this technology, but first you must purge your mind of Cryptotokens and their economics. They aren't applicable for a logistics use case. To understand this, first you have to understand why we structure mining. In the case of Bitcoin or Ethereum, you need a method that allows any arbitrary computational device to verify and add to a given blockchain. In lieu of trusting that device, t…

Thanks a lot for your explanations. I'm very interested in that space. However, I'm a complete outsider. Would you have any pointers how to break into logistics + blockchain space as a developer? Like blogs to follow, companies, suitable jobs etc? Very much appreciated

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#486

Post by illlogic2 » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

ric2b wrote: post #480

illlogic2 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in reality no one has ever held a gun to your head because of taxes.

Because there's no point in going through all the steps, but that's exactly where it would end if you absolutely refused to pay taxes and refused to pay fines or go to jail for not paying.

I fail to see how having a gun to your head is in any way true. Can you give any examples of this happening?

Tax evasion is a crime and you should go to jail (you are exploiting the benefits you have received from society). But big companies find tax loopholes all the time and they go to white-collar prisons or get away with it anyways.

Re: Wall Street rethinks blockchain projects as euphoria meets reality

#487

Post by rdo2018 » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 9:03 PM UTC

JamesLeonis wrote: post #453

m00n wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never quite got my head around the value proposition for distributed ledgers in logistics ('smart warehouses / supply chains') and manufacturing ('industry 4.0'). Say you want to trace eco paper rolls around the globe. What could the blockchain do for you? Who are the nodes/miners/coins in this application? When you suspect some intermediate in the paper chain to exchange eco paper for cheaper ordinary paper, how d…

Logistics are a great place for this technology, but first you must purge your mind of Cryptotokens and their economics. They aren't applicable for a logistics use case. To understand this, first you have to understand why we structure mining. In the case of Bitcoin or Ethereum, you need a method that allows any arbitrary computational device to verify and add to a given blockchain. In lieu of trusting that device, t…

This is helpful I am total neophyte when it comes to blockchain but its continued to surface in a number of conversation that seem credible- I need to launch a anonymous,but verified, de-centralized but coordinated way where users can contribute and consume with appropriate transaction costs- Blockchain seems to be an approach, as an underlying structure but I am concerned that its too hyped to be taken seriously and also seems to compete directly with other database approaches that today have computational scale issues but wont always due to low cost distributed technology- thoughts?