I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…
Parents should take responsibility and not let their children smoke, and we still banned selling cigarets to children. Just because something should be some way, doesn't mean as a society we shouldn't do anything about it. In any case, the story with parents and addictive devices is even harder for parents than e.g. cigarets. For example, a LOT of schools in the UK think that it's good to give childrens ipads to stud…
Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
471–480 of 549 posts
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#472I find myself stuck on the fence with age checks. Companies have show that they are incapable or unwilling to address the problems they cause. And market forces are not working to correct things. It’s also pretty obvious that saying “parent should take responsibility” is also not working. Just observe the world around you to know it’s a non starter. This is where regulation is supposed to come in. At the same time, c…
The EU actually has a very good, privacy protecting way of doing this based on zero knowledge proofs. Unfortunately they completely botched it by having the proof-of-concept app rely on Apple & Googles integrity APIs - which a bunch of countries copied.
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do we need to verify age? You can't tell me that these social media companies don't already know exactly how old someone is just based on the enormous data that is collected.
They do already like YouTube and ChatGPT, so they'll ask for your age only when they're unsure.
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#474Seriously ready to fully drop google emails and services, i'm using vivaldi + personal email for a while now, the migration was slow a bit painful but complete. Only the phone is still attached to play store and google, but i'm 100% ready to switch to the fully supported Chinese variant of ColorOS and flush Google into the toilet once and for all. But my next phone will 100% be a Sailfish again.
Even if you drop Google you'll still have a bunch of websites that now also will require age verification.
Also there are services like opencode go that force a gmail account to sign in.
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The only acceptable solution would be for apps and websites to simply include a recommended age. Allowing parents to configure their children’s devices to block services that require users to be older than the specified age or that do not provide an age rating. That just entertains the false justification for what is ultimately about surveillance and control. There are privacy preserving alternatives to accounts an…
What might those be? Everything I've seen is ineffective or can be compromised. I think letting parents parent is probably the best option, but will require better/easier/free tools and education to help lock down different categories of harm.
Kids nowadays use phones and tablets for the most part. They don't even know how to use a computer that well and are not taught properly. But this isn't really on the kids.
Now, suppose I'm an OS developer. I cannot simply fork Android or iOS to create a child-friendly toy operating system for smartphones with a reduced set of features. The hardware is locked down to oblivion. They want you to use their OS. And their OS has no user accounts, permissions, or firewall configs.
Well, then suppose I'm an app developer, and I want to make a browser or social app with built-in client-side content filtering. But my browser doesn't pass Cloudflare or whatever attestation, and is blocked from half of the sites. It might not even be approved on their app store so people will never find it.
Fine. Then I want to change what content is filtered within the approved apps. But those options either don't exist or is some kind of cloud service where you give them your age, and they decide what to filter.
========= Parents can't even control what software runs on their own hardware. How are they supposed to control what runs on their child's hardware? =========
"The market failed", so they can sell you parenting among other things as a service, with surveillance as a free gift. The tech companies make money while the government gets control over the populace. It's a terrible arrangement.
That is why most digital parenting solutions you've seen are ineffective or can be easily compromised. Tech companies along with the government are playing chess against you at every level of the stack. Don't ever forget the PRISM program exposed by Edward Snowden. Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook - they're all complicit. Don't look at what their PR department says, look at what they do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Revelations
One possible short-term solution is antitrust legislation for hardware vendors to ship their devices without an OS... is what I would say if we lived in a sunshine and butterflies world. Maybe the EU is not thoroughly captured yet and still has the ability to implement this, but I doubt it. Technoauthoritarians are building a panopticon to contain the sheep, and they're not even hiding it at this point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQqQtgRdjZU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d34b7taQ640
The actual long-term solution is difficult. We have to make our own computers and radio equipment before they outlaw mining and manufacturing using the same safety excuses, which will happen when humanoid robots can do those jobs. The entire stack has to be open-source, which means we will have to diffuse fab technology everywhere so that people can manufacture computers locally, from mining to wafers to final assembly, in every city, or even at home. There are very talented people working on this problem, so it will be done. Just don't fall for the narrative that surveillance is inevitable or needed.
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
Website generates a random nounce, the government offers to sign the json { over_18: true, nounce: [inserted_here] }. That signing is coupled to you being signed in, or scanning your passport via nfc or whatever That significantly reduces the leaked information: the service doesn't receive any information who you are, and the government doesn't know what service you use. They can collude, but that does not reveal mor…
The word nounce is used to describe a sex offender, at least in the UK.
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
Website generates a random nounce, the government offers to sign the json { over_18: true, nounce: [inserted_here] }. That signing is coupled to you being signed in, or scanning your passport via nfc or whatever That significantly reduces the leaked information: the service doesn't receive any information who you are, and the government doesn't know what service you use. They can collude, but that does not reveal mor…
The word nounce is used to describe a sex offender, at least in the UK.
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#478I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…
Adult content providers already voluntarily embed this, with devices blocking websites when it detects this on the page if parental controls forbid adult content.
Parents really just don't parent their children nowadays. They expect the government to do it for them - and why shouldn't they, when they already trust the government to babysit their kids during the day? Why can't the government also babysit their kids for the 6+ hours a day they let their kids spend on the iPad?
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#479This coordinated worldwide effort at the same time is very creepy.
Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cool, so no change? Even even a multi-billionaire usually doesn't have a 100 million lying in the bank (unless they sold some asset and are going to buy another soon).
I think you know yourself that the parent poster didn't mean literally coins in a bank vault like Scrooge McDuck.