Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would appreciate some reading pointers about this.
dig into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Håkan_Lans for example
What? How is someone born in 1947 relevant to ip theft in the 19th century?
DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
471–480 of 586 posts
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
We start logically. Do you presume your handful of cases exemplify the entire Democratic system? Do you assume that "China" is best understood as a single centralized entity? You completely walked past the argument to pick at a meaningless nit.
Handing out lessons in democracy from the record-holder country in foreign intervention ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... ) had equal civil rights only in the 1960s, pardoned the perpetrators of Jan 6, has its supreme court in entirely political hands, and has the awesomest repressive force in the world, together with the incarcerated population to go with. Maybe I picked like 4 meanin…
Please don't take one sentence out of a larger context and pretend it represents the argument.
Which, again, you've managed to completely ignore.
The argument, ironically in black and white, so you can sense it, "this isn't a black and white scenario and seeing it as China vs USA blinds you to the complex differences and global geopolitical forces involved."
I get that you don't personally like America, for whatever reason, but you've blinded yourself to sense in your rush to convey your rather negative and absolutely common sensibilities.
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
It feels like the US for years has operated under the assumption that homeostasis for the global economy would always be “designed in California, assembled in China.” Like there was something in the American DNA that was lacking in China and innovation would always need to happen here. But China it seems doesn’t need the US to produce great cars, devices, robotics, or AI. We absolutely need China to help us build all…
>Like there was something in the American DNA that was lacking in China and innovation would always need to happen here. There is (was): attracting the best minds around the world to a free and stable society. Trump voters threw it all away because they couldn't stand non-whites coming to America and doing better than old stock Americans.
That's such a gross misrepresentation of reality.
First of all, the only group of immigrants targeted by the admin are those critical of certain middle eastern regime.
Republican racists mainly care about the immigrants that do not take their middle-class jobs anyways.
Anti-Indian hate is restricted to a minority of software engineers and anti-Chinese hate is virtually non-existent.
I do believe it is idiotic to have your universities full of Chinese, your manufacturing in China and, at the same time, treat China as a geopolitical enemy.
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, however apple makes the overwhelming majority of the profit in the smartphone market.
For most people Apple's main selling point is about showing off the cute devices and battery life, but that's not going to play a role when users are free to choose the tool that will call the models.
You might be vastly overestimating what a majority of phone owners use their phone for.
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
Might be more far to say: they needed the US until they caught up. The massive straight up IP theft helps a lot here. Though theft might be too strong since a lot of companies knew what they were getting in to
The US committed massive IP theft in the 19th century when we industrialized.
Sure but I think what people are actually concerned with today is China copying a product and dumping cheaply back in the country it was taken from. That scale and speed is not what was happening in the 19th century.
I personally have little issue with countries doing that for domestic use (I hate using term "IP theft"), but to re-export so quickly you can't run a viable business in your own country is not fine.
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
Might be more far to say: they needed the US until they caught up. The massive straight up IP theft helps a lot here. Though theft might be too strong since a lot of companies knew what they were getting in to
Ok, not my favorite narrative, but assume asymmetric application of intellectual property rights was a big factor. Wouldn't the US exploiting asymmetric labor wages, rights, and conditions be the even bigger story? It still feels like a short-sighted own goal. The US abandoned its ability to manufacture. Maybe dark factories and robotics can bring it back, but manufacturing supply chains are just so much more advance…
> Wouldn't the US exploiting asymmetric labor wages, rights, and conditions be the even bigger story?
Yes, but "the US" is reductive. The exploitation wasn't done by the towns having their tentpole industries shipped overseas, it was done by the people shipping them overseas and pocketing the profit. US capital owners made a deal with the Chinese Communist Party that was good for both of them and bad for the US.
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#477Amusing that just when the big three AI providers from US raise prices significantly, even for the mini models, you’ve got a Chinese model slashing their already-cheap offer by 75%. Not to mention you can run this model on your own hardware, although admittedly even the flash stretches the meaning of local for individual people.
Nothing weird about it. It’s all supply and demand. The US providers are at capacity limits and are increasing pricing as demand increases. The Chinese providers are relatively unknown and not even allowed for a lot of applications. They have to cut the price just to be attractive.
Can they actually make money at these prices?
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, however apple makes the overwhelming majority of the profit in the smartphone market.
For most people Apple's main selling point is about showing off the cute devices and battery life, but that's not going to play a role when users are free to choose the tool that will call the models.
I’ve never seen anyone show off an iPhone. What a weird take.
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#479Just don't ask it about what happened in 1989.
Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent
#480China may be subsidizing this for now in a way that US companies can't or won't - but if they keep building power infrastructure and the US doesn't, then it will no longer require subsidy from them. It will simply be absolutely cheaper (including profit margin) to serve tokens in China. China is building for the future, while Western Democracies are afraid of the future, and of their own shadow.
> China is building for the future, while Western Democracies are afraid of the future
who are the decision makers in china?