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How the AI Bubble Will Pop

derekthompson.org

471–480 of 531 posts

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#471
post #438

The most frustrating thing to me about this most recent rash of biz guy doubting the future of AI articles is the required mention that AI, specifically an LLM based approach to AGI, is important even if the numbers don't make sense today. Why is that the case? There's plenty of people in the field who have made convincing arguments that it's a dead end and fundamentally we'll need to do something else to achieve AGI…

>the required mention that AI, specifically an LLM based approach to AGI, is important... I don't think that's true. The people who think AI is important call it AI. The skeptics call it LLMs so they can say LLMs won't work. It's kind of a strawman argument really.

You can buy a rice cooker that claims it uses "AI", it's too much of a marketing buzzword to be useful.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#472
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN isn't always right. There was massive pushback against self driving and practically everyone was saying it would fail and is a bubble. The level of confidence people had about this opinion was through the roof. Like people who didn't know anything would say it with such utter confidence it would piss me off a bit. Like how do you know? Well they didn't and they were utterly wrong. Waymo showed it's not a bubble. A…

> Waymo showed it's not a bubble. Waymo is showing it might not be a bubble. They are selling rides in five cities. Let's see how they do in 100 cities.

You aren't living it. I live in SF, I ride waymos every freaking day. SF has some of the tightest roads and hardest driving. Just living in SF I already know they can scale to the entire country.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN isn't always right. There was massive pushback against self driving and practically everyone was saying it would fail and is a bubble. The level of confidence people had about this opinion was through the roof. Like people who didn't know anything would say it with such utter confidence it would piss me off a bit. Like how do you know? Well they didn't and they were utterly wrong. Waymo showed it's not a bubble. A…

What was promised with self-driving and what we have are orders of magnitude off. We were promised fleets of autonomous taxis - no need to even own a car anymore. We were told truck drivers would be replaced en-masse and cargo would drive 24x7 by drivers who never needed breaks. We were told downtown parking lots would disappear since the car would drop you off and drive to an offsite lot and wait for you. In short a…

I don't ride ubers anymore. It changed society in SF.

You guys don't know what's coming.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#474
post #2

> Some people think artificial intelligence will be the most important technology of the 21st century. I don’t, I think a workable fusion reactor will be the most important technology of the 21st century.

We'll finally have electricity that's too cheap to meter.

Residential will still cost more somehow.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#475
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are so-called "human in the loop". They don't have a remote driver in the sense of someone sitting in front of a screen playing what looks like a game of Truck Simulator. But they are operated by humans. It's kind of like when cruse control was added to cars. No longer did you have to worry about directly controlling the pedal, but you still had to remain the operator. In some very narrow sense you might be able…

This is absolutely false. In rare cases Waymo needs human intervention, but they do NOT have humans in the loop for the vast majority of their operations.

Cruise control also doesn't need human intervention for the vast marjory of its operation. Yet, the human remains the operator. But it seems we're just playing a silly game of semantics at this point, so let's return to the actual topic at hand.

There was a time where people believed that everyone would buy a new car with self-driving technology, which would be an enormous cash cow for anyone responsible for delivering the technology to facilitate that. So the race was on to become that responsible party. What we actually got, finally, decades after the bubble began, was a handful of taxis that can't leave a small, tightly controlled region — all while haemorrhage money like it is going out of style.

It is really interesting technology and it is wonderful that Alphabet is willing to heavily subsidize moving some people from point A to point B in a limited niche capacity, but the idea that you could buy in and turn that investment into vast riches was soon recognized as a dead end.

AI is still in the "maybe it will become something someday" phase. Clearly it has demonstrated niche uses already, but that isn't anywhere nearly sufficient to justify all the investment that has gone into it. It needs a "everyone around the world is going to buy a new car" moment for the financials to make sense and that hasn't happened yet. And people won't wait around forever. The window to get there is quickly closing. Much like self-driving cars, a "FAANG" might still be willing to offer subsidies to keep it alive in some kind of limited fashion, but most everyone else will start to pull out and then there will be nothing to keep the bubble inflated.

It isn't too late for AI yet. People remain optimistic at this juncture. But the odds are not good. As before, even if AI reaches a point where it does everything we could ever hope for, much of the dreams built on those hopes are likely to end up being pretty stupid in hindsight. The Dotcom bubble didn't pop because the internet was flawed. It popped because we started to realize that we didn't need it for the things we were trying to use it for. It is almost certain that future AI uses that have us all hyped up right now will go the same way. Such is life.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#476
post #123

I feel kind of like a Luddite sometimes but I don't understand why EVERYONE is rushing to use AI? I use a couple different agents to help me code, and ChatGPT has largely replaced Google in my everyday use, but I genuinely don't understand the value proposition of every other companies offerings. I really feel like we're in the same "Get it out first, figure out what it is good for later" bubble we had like 7 years a…

It only needs to be appealing to investors. It can quite obviously do that and then some.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#477
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try building something new in claude code (or codex etc) using a programming language you have not used before. Your opinion might change drastically. Try changing something old in claude code (or codex etc) using a programming language you have used before. Your opinion might change drastically.

this is literally how i maintain the code at my current position, if i didn't have copilot+ i would be cooked

Same here. Coworker left. I now maintain a bunch of Go code and I had never written any before.

I use copilot in agent mode.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#478
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo showed it's not a bubble. Waymo showed that under tightly controlled conditions humans can successfully operate cars remotely. Which is still really useful, but a far cry from the promise of everyone being able to buy a personal pod on wheels that takes you to and fro, no matter where you want to go, while you sleep that the bubble was premised on. In other words, Waymo has proven the bubble. It has been 20 y…

I ride waymos on the regular. It's not tightly controlled conditions. It's some of the hardest roads in the bay area. >While that is technically true, has there ever not been a bubble when people start dreaming about what could be? Even if AI heads towards being everything we hope it can become, it still seems highly likely that people have dreamed up uses for the potential of AI that aren't actually useful. The Pets…

> It's some of the hardest roads in the bay area.

Hard is subjective. Multiplying large numbers is hard for humans, but easy for machines. I'd say something like the I-80 through Nebraska is one of the easiest drives imaginable, but good luck getting your Waymo ride down that route... You've not made a good case for it operating outside of tightly controlled bounds.

More importantly, per the topic of conversation, you've not made a good case for the investment. Even though it has found an apparent niche, Waymo continues to lose money like it is going out of style. It is nice of them to pay you to get yourself around and all, but the idea that someone could invest in self-driving cars to get rich from it is dead.

> What I see more of on HN is everyone calling everything a bubble.

Ultimately, a bubble occurs when people invest more into something than they can get back in return. Maybe HN is right — that everything is in a bubble? There aren't a lot of satisfactory answers for how the cost of things these days can be recouped. Perhaps there are not widely recognized variables that are being missed by the masses, however the sentiment is at least understandable.

But the current AI state of affairs especially looks a lot like the Dotcom bubble. Interesting technology that can be incredibly useful in the right hands, but is largely being used for pretty stupid purposes. It is almost certain that in the relatively near future we'll start to realize that we never needed many of those things to begin with, go through the trough of disillusionment, and, eventually, on the other side find its true purpose in life. The trouble is, from a financial perspective, that doesn't justify the spend.

This time could be different, but since we're talking about human behaviour that has never been different before, why would humans suddenly be different now? There has been no apparent change to the human.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI "spent" more on sales/marketing and equity compensation than that: "Other significant costs included $2 billion spent on sales and marketing, nearly doubling what OpenAI spent on sales and marketing in all of 2024. Though not a cash expense, OpenAI also spent nearly $2.5 billion on stock-based equity compensation in the first six months of 2025" ("spent" because the equity is not cash-based) From https://archi…

How the fuck does anyone spend 2 billion dollars on sales and marketing. I’ve seen the odd ad for openai but thag number seems completely bananas.

All that free use by millions of users is sales and marketing.

Re: How the AI Bubble Will Pop

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's silly to say that the only objective that will vindicate AI investments is AGI. Current batch of deep learning models are fundamentally a technology for labor automation. This is immensely useful in itself, without the need to do AGI. The Sora2 capabilities are absolutely wild (see a great example here of what non-professional users are already able to create with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXp8_w3XzgU…

If you calculate the investment into AI and then divide by say 100k that's how many man-years need to replace with AI to be cost effective as labor automation the numbers aren't that promising given the current level of capability.

I don't think I follow. 1 trillion total investment divided by 100k yields 10 million man years, or 300k man-careers.

Just the disruption we can already see in the software industry are easily of that magnitude.

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