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Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

thehill.com

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Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#471

Post by insane_dreamer »

dyauspitr wrote: post #251
nyolfen wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No Silicon Valley company that I know of pays H-1B and citizens different wages on that basis. larger pool means lower wages. this is so fundamental and obvious that it feels like i'm being gaslit when i see shit like this.

The US needs immigrants. We need the best and the brightest. Those are the folks starting the new job creating companies. That’s what keeps us so innovative. The H1B is a good gauntlet through which we can get those immigrants. Ended it is shortsighted.

We have EB1, EB2, EB3 programs for the "best and the brightest". We don't need H1B for that.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#472

Post by insane_dreamer »

epolanski wrote: post #192
back2dafucha wrote: post #112

Old news. This has been going on for decades. If you even look badly on youtube you will find corporate videos from "HR Consultants" teaching companies how to bury job listings so noone will be likely to find them. Your country sold you down the river 30 years ago.

> Your country sold you down the river 30 years ago. Jm2c but I think the harsh truth is that US while having a decently sized population of good software engineers, it is still nowhere near the required amount. Thus, many companies would rather give 150/200k to someone who's actually good at it and will be impressed by that money rather than some half assed US graduate who only went into SE because he wanted a cushy…

> Jm2c but I think the harsh truth is that US while having a decently sized population of good software engineers, it is still nowhere near the required amount.

This is not true now, if it ever was (maybe for very short periods); there is tremendous competition for every good SWE job out there, and has been for a long time.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#473

Post by invalidOrTaken »

legitster wrote: post #172

So I was at a company that did this a lot - it was much less nefarious than on the surface. It was usually related to them recruiting a certain specialist or acquiring a team at another company. But the only way to get these people visas was to post the jobs publicly and hide them as much as possible. They did this by the hundreds, and it wasn't really a cost saving measure - if you are trying to get anybody in parti…

>But the only way to get these people visas was to post the jobs publicly and hide them as much as possible. They did this by the hundreds, and it wasn't really a cost saving measure - if you are trying to get anybody in particular from Microsoft or Amazon and they are already here on a Visa, you have to go through the process all over again to sponsor them.

The spirit of the law is that this should not be your intent---that your intent should be to fill the job requirements, not to hire a particular person.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#474

Post by prime_ursid »

ab_testing wrote: post #287

I think the hill is trying to create a narrative here. The law specifically states to post job postings in newspapers and it is congress's fault if they have not updated the laws. As per PERM regulations (20 C.F.R. §656.17): For professional positions (those requiring a bachelor’s degree or higher), the employer must conduct two Sunday newspaper advertisements in a newspaper of general circulation in the area of inte…

Finally, someone in this thread says this. Thank you!

This opinion column from The Hill is written by a Fox News contributor. Of course it’s going to leave out certain inconvenient facts in service of a nativist agenda. The HN community time and time again shows that they are ready to be whipped up into an anti-immigrant frenzy at the drop of a hat.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#475

Post by AdrianB1 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #440
AdrianB1 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an exception used to justify the rule. There is a very small percentage that founded companies and the rest are impacting negatively the economy.

> the rest are impacting negatively the economy Can you expand this line of thinking? Is this also true for other OECD members that aggressively pursue immigration as an economic growth strategy?

If you import cheap labor, you hit your economy by lowering the wages in that sector. When you have immigration, there are a few very top talents and a lot of average people coming, the average ones are not a net benefit in most cases. In US migrants don't create huge problems of integration and culture clashes, in Western Europe there are problems with that so the overall impact is negative.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#476

Post by pandaman »

bubblethink wrote: post #438
pandaman wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, EB-1 does not require rare skills. PERM based EB-2 and 3, though, require that there are no US workers with such skills available so it's highly correlated with skill's rarity. So why and where would I say that the entire EB system is created for people with rare skills? >> You may be eligible for an employment-based, first-preference visa if you are an alien of extraordinary ability, are an outstanding pr…

The lack is established by a good faith recruitment process, not an exhaustive search. This is intentionally vague because it's a non-sensical requirement that is hard to prove one way or the other and was only added as a political compromise. The company is free to tailor the minimum requirements to its liking. Recall that this is a free capitalistic country. So you can establish that you can't fill the req. locally…

The company is free to tailor the minimum requirements to its liking however it must be able to persuade the government that the job cannot be done without these requirements and a foreigner meets them. If you could just require a Nobel Prize in Physics and 50 years of experience for your PM or JS-jockey job then we would not be seeing articles like this. So I don't see why would you be pointing it out.

>and companies have lawyers who are good at following the text

Apparently not very good lawyers at Apple: https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-11/ier-apple_settlement_agre...

Or Meta: https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-labor-depart...

Just a couple of recent high-profile busts. The problem is not "good lawyers" but the fact that the only punishment for breaking the law is a pittance of a settlement.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#477

Post by AdrianB1 »

jalapenos wrote: post #466
AdrianB1 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you cannot pay for it, it means it is not important enough. Maybe that is the problem, you want exceptional talent for pennies.

That sounds true enough for coastals to downvote you for.

It is a low price for free speech.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#478

Post by BeFlatXIII »

js2 wrote: post #439
fuzztester wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why did it work out that way in the US?

During WWII there were wage freezes so employers started providing benefits: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/upshot/the-real-reason-th... > In 1942, with so many eligible workers diverted to military service, the nation was facing a severe labor shortage. Economists feared that businesses would keep raising salaries to compete for workers, and that inflation would spiral out of control as the country came out of t…

Hysterical raisin?

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#479

Post by hn_go_brrrrr »

colmmacc wrote: post #400
1024core wrote: post #202

A lot of these problems could be solved if H1-B's were given out in order of salary (I think there's such a proposal going around recently). And by that I mean: something like a Dutch auction. Give H1-Bs to the top 85K paying jobs (maybe normalized to SoL in the region, I'm sure the BLS has some idea on how to do it). The lure of H1-Bs is the money savings, and the fact that if you're on an H1-B, you're practically a…

H1B visas don't require employers to post jobs; this PERM process comes later when someone seeks an employment sponsored green card. Visas could be allocated in some kind of priority order, but salary alone would probably concentrate visas to just the relatively high-paying tech sector, leaving other professions out entirely. I'm not sure that's good; the US also needs people with expertise in science, industrial and…

What are the disadvantages of the points system? In what ways do companies abuse it?

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#480

Post by BeFlatXIII »

thephyber wrote: post #306
Taek wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a fair way for the free market to address things, no? If you need special carve outs, create a new type of Visa for those special cases. The immigrants are all going to be paying taxes on their earnings. If you can boost H1B salaries by an average of $20k/yr by doing a price auction, that brings govt revenue and maybe even gives opportunities to balance the budget by creating more H1B slots.

What do you mean “fair”? What happens in the years/decades between when this hypothetical system is enacted and when the US can train up sufficient workers to substitute the labor force we currently have with H1-B? Your proposal will mean 99% of all of the H1-B allocation will go to hedge fund quants and 1% maybe go to an AI researcher, but all of the materials science (eg. Cutting edge battery tech), semiconductor f…

> Your proposal will mean 99% of all of the H1-B allocation will go to hedge fund quants and 1% maybe go to an AI researcher, but all of the materials science (eg. Cutting edge battery tech), semiconductor fabrication, neuroscience, pharmaceutical research etc will have to go without the skilled workers they currently get from visas. This is a recipe for the Boeingization of the US economy.

If they're that necessary, let companies hire them on green card visas.

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