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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#471

Post by nh23423fefe »

whoknowsidont wrote: post #61
nh23423fefe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, before it was civil war, now its explain yourself point by point.

I stated a position and viewpoint, GP said "no that's not the only option." but didn't elucidate anything. So yeah, state something affirmative that can be responded to. And again, don't be disingenuous about how effective those options would be, this is not the same America we were in even 4 months ago.

I mean, the objects in your ontology don't even exist, "Democratic states"

Just say you hate your fellow citizens and stop dressing up your weird violence?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#472

Post by compiler-guy »

ty6853 wrote: post #456
mjburgess wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That applies to warrants for arrest. The standard warrant ICE operate with is a civil warrant, and does not confer any actual authority to arrest an individual.

I keep hearing over and over the ICE warrants aren't real. If they are arresting people using them and judges are recognizing them, they are real and the people demanding an arrest warrant are the sovereign citizen-tier people screaming at the sky wishing there was a different reality.

There are multiple types of warrants. All types are "real", but they convey different authority and different requirements upon both the arrestee and the arresters.

It is both rational and legal to insist that law enforcement stay within the bounds of the authority the specific type warrant they obtained. ICE civil warrants grant different authority than every-day federal arrest warrants. That ICE is abusing that authority is no reason to capitulate to it.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#473

Post by mjburgess »

ty6853 wrote: post #456
mjburgess wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That applies to warrants for arrest. The standard warrant ICE operate with is a civil warrant, and does not confer any actual authority to arrest an individual.

I keep hearing over and over the ICE warrants aren't real. If they are arresting people using them and judges are recognizing them, they are real and the people demanding an arrest warrant are the sovereign citizen-tier people screaming at the sky wishing there was a different reality.

There are two different warrants. Ones issued by judges, which are "real" and ones signed by ICE supervisors which are little more than legal authorisation that this agent can go out and investigate a person -- even if they nevertheless attempt to arrest them.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#474

Post by esbranson »

lolinder wrote: post #434
esbranson wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Party composition changes over time, and the people who made up the KKK switched parties starting when JFK backed the civil rights movement. It's the right wing militias that are the spiritual successors to the KKK, not the Democratic party. As much as I wish we had a Republican party that was an actual successor to Lincoln's, that's not how political parties work. https://economics.princeton.edu/working-papers/why-d…

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#475

Post by Gabriel54 »

kstrauser wrote: post #406

Part of the reason why I support "sanctuary cities" is that it's better for everyone if undocumented immigrants feel safe talking to the police. Imagine someone broke into my car and there was a witness who saw the whole thing. I want them to be OK telling the cops what happened. I want them to be OK reporting crimes in their neighborhood. I want them to be OK testifying about it in court. I want them to be OK callin…

What is the purpose of laws if they are willfully ignored? Where do you draw the line? If the police don't care about someone's immigration status, why should they care about who broke into your car?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#476

Post by rufus_foreman »

kstrauser wrote: post #406

Part of the reason why I support "sanctuary cities" is that it's better for everyone if undocumented immigrants feel safe talking to the police. Imagine someone broke into my car and there was a witness who saw the whole thing. I want them to be OK telling the cops what happened. I want them to be OK reporting crimes in their neighborhood. I want them to be OK testifying about it in court. I want them to be OK callin…

>> If some guy's due to testify in a murder case, I don't want him skipping court because some quota-making jackass at ICE wants to arrest him because of a visa issue

From the criminal complaint in this case:

"I also am aware that pursuant to its policies, which had been made known to courthouse officials, the Milwaukee ICE ERO Task Force was focusing its resources on apprehending charged defendants making appearances in criminal cases – and not arresting victims, witnesses, or individuals appearing for matters in family or civil court."

So it sounds like they take this into account. As for why they make arrests at the courthouse:

"The reasons for this include not only the fact that law enforcement knows the location at which the wanted individual should be located but also the fact that the wanted individual would have entered through a security checkpoint and thus unarmed, minimizing the risk of injury to law enforcement, the public, and the wanted individual."

Makes sense. Seems like they have weighed the risks and advantages of this and come up with a reasonable approach.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#477

Post by billy99k »

kstrauser wrote: post #406

Part of the reason why I support "sanctuary cities" is that it's better for everyone if undocumented immigrants feel safe talking to the police. Imagine someone broke into my car and there was a witness who saw the whole thing. I want them to be OK telling the cops what happened. I want them to be OK reporting crimes in their neighborhood. I want them to be OK testifying about it in court. I want them to be OK callin…

[flagged]

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#478

Post by dbspin »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #475
kstrauser wrote: post #406

Part of the reason why I support "sanctuary cities" is that it's better for everyone if undocumented immigrants feel safe talking to the police. Imagine someone broke into my car and there was a witness who saw the whole thing. I want them to be OK telling the cops what happened. I want them to be OK reporting crimes in their neighborhood. I want them to be OK testifying about it in court. I want them to be OK callin…

What is the purpose of laws if they are willfully ignored? Where do you draw the line? If the police don't care about someone's immigration status, why should they care about who broke into your car?

The line is prosecution policy. There are thousands of laws on the books that are never enforced, particularly in the United States. Given the inhuman and grossly illegal deportation without due process of thousands of people by the Trump administration - to an extrajudicial torture prison no less - many means of resisting the kidnap of people (citizens or non) are reasonable).

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#479

Post by Gabriel54 »

mjburgess wrote: post #51
kemayo wrote: post #16

> He accused Dugan of “intentionally misdirecting” federal agents who arrived at the courthouse to detain an immigrant who was set to appear before her in an unrelated proceeding. It sounds like the arrest isn't because of any official act of the judge, but rather over them either not telling the ICE agents where the person was or giving them the wrong information about their location. There are some pretty broad law…

1. It isnt clear ICE agents have any legal authority to demand a judge tell them anything. 2. It is highly likely this is an official act, since it would be taken on behalf of court, so the immigrant can give, eg. testimony in a case. A "private act" here would be the judge lying in order to prevent their deportation because they as a private person wanted to do so. It seems highly unlikely that this is the case.

Did you read the warrant? They did not demand the judge tell them anything. They knew he was there and were waiting outside the courtroom to arrest him. The judge confronted them and was visibly upset. She directed the agents elsewhere and then immediately told Ruiz and his counsel to exit via a private hallway. The attorney prosecuting the case against Ruiz and his (alleged) victims were present in the court and confused when his case was never called, even though everyone was present in the court.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#480

Post by Larrikin »

adolph wrote: post #420
kemayo wrote: post #16

> He accused Dugan of “intentionally misdirecting” federal agents who arrived at the courthouse to detain an immigrant who was set to appear before her in an unrelated proceeding. It sounds like the arrest isn't because of any official act of the judge, but rather over them either not telling the ICE agents where the person was or giving them the wrong information about their location. There are some pretty broad law…

> I.e. the ICE agents showed up in the middle of a court proceeding, and the judge said they'd need to get permission from the chief judge before they could interrupt proceedings. The judge then didn't stop the defendant from leaving once the proceeding was done. Do you have any evidence of this claim? The FBI affidavit says they were waiting in the public hallway outside, let the bailiff know what they were doing an…

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