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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#471

Post by slowmovintarget »

exe34 wrote: post #422
jimmcslim wrote: post #237

The Vatican published an interesting document on AI [1], which attributes a number of quotes to Pope Francis: * As Pope Francis noted, the machine “makes a technical choice among several possibilities based either on well-defined criteria or on statistical inferences. Human beings, however, not only choose, but in their hearts are capable of deciding." * In light of this, the use of AI, as Pope Francis said, must be…

> but in their hearts are capable of deciding I question both the organ and the action.

Question, but perhaps, open your heart to recent research... There is neural tissue in and around the heart. There are studies showing personality changes and memory inculcation as a result of heart transplants. Recipients end up with memory and sometimes traits of the donor.

Are we sure? No. But neither should you be. Question but be open to answers you may not expect.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#472

Post by kelnos »

AStonesThrow wrote: post #152
hliyan wrote: post #13

I wonder whether we will have another Jesuit Pope. Jesuits are supposed to be generally very education focused, more progressive (especially w.r.t science) and stand less on ceremony. I know nothing about how the College of Cardinals work, but if they're anything like other political voting bodies, one of two outcomes are possible: a swing to the Right (and toward tradition), recognizing the current balance of power…

It always seems weird and ignorant for people to be labeling Catholic bishops as “left-wing” or “right-wing” or “liberal/progressive” or “conservative”. Those are all political terms for politicians and their platforms or parties. They do not translate to Catholic doctrines or teachings. Y’all are simply parroting what the lamestream media wants to impose, a political veneer on non-politicians who are shepherds, past…

While "progressive", "conservative", etc. are commonly used as political labels, they are general terms that describe how a person wants to see the world work. All people, regardless of their job or function, can have these sorts of terms ascribed to them.

And the Catholic Church exists on the world stage, and is involved in politics. Its leadership can be and is political.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#473

Post by slowmovintarget »

diggan wrote: post #347
timeon wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * As Pope Francis observes, “the very use of the word ‘intelligence’” in connection with AI “can prove misleading” Yes, LLMs are more about knowledge than intelligence. AK rather than AI.

Illustrating perfectly how wide this conversation really is, as we don't even have consensus about what "knowledge" means :)

Knowledge is well described (not necessarily explained, but described) in information theory. Intelligence, sentience, consciousness, even whether something is alive, are fuzzy concepts.

Biology has a working definitions of "living organism" that includes a way to calculate likelihood that something is a living organism, but it still is probabilistic.

Understanding is another concept that depends on philosophy of the mind as opposed to concrete physical processes.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#474

Post by lukan »

sramsay wrote: post #360
kergonath wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". Which is "interesting", considering how much of the New Testament is about redemption and reaching out to outsiders. Aren’t we all supposed to be God’s creation, and wasn’t Jesus supposed to teach us about salvation, redemption and forgiveness? (And by "interesting", I mean that it is yet another of example cognitive dissona…

It's funny you mention Kiril. I keep thinking about Pope Francis's (apparently deep and genuine) friendship with Bartholomew, Ecumenical Patriarch of the Orthodox Church. It is traditional for the EP to visit Rome on the patronal Feast of Saints Peter and Paul and for the Pope to visit Istanbul on the Feast of Saint Andrew, which is apparently when the friendship first formed. My absolute favorite story about Francis…

"Actually, it's my second favorite story. My favorite story is his insistence that he live in the Vatican guesthouse"

I believe that had mainly power reasons, because pope Paul II was pretty out of the loop, what the cardinals were doing.

And Francis likely expected to face opposition in what he was doing, so being closer to the "people" was likely helpful on having an eye on them.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#476

Post by kelnos »

atrus wrote: post #317
kashunstva wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it,…

I think there's an implied "and not expect a response" there. If you insult unhinged people (and people who kill over a mere 'offense' to their religion are unhinged), don't be surprised when you receive an unhinged response back.

So we should all be chilled and silent, because there are unhinged people who might retaliate far out of proportion to anything we might do or say? That's no way to live.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#478

Post by amanaplanacanal »

hersko wrote: post #399
tetris11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I express my closeness to the sufferings of Christians in Palestine and Israel, and to all the Israeli people and the Palestinian people. The growing climate of anti-Semitism throughout the world is worrisome. Yet at the same time, I think of the people of Gaza, and its Christian community in particular, where the terrible conflict continues to cause death and destruction and to create a dramatic and deplorable hum…

Tangentially related: why do so many people call for a ceasefire, when a ceasefire is generally temporary. It wouldn't resolve any of the underlying reasons for the war. He should be calling for surrender.

For which side?

Re: Pope Francis has died

#479

Post by rglullis »

wat10000 wrote: post #464
rglullis wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of Islam actively promotes separation of church and state? What country with a majority Islamic population is currently going through a secularization process?

What part of Christianity actively promotes it? There’s that one line, which meaning is debated, in a book full of stories about religious governments. In any case, I only care about the practicalities. In terms of what they try to achieve, there’s no real difference between the Christian and Muslim dominionists.

> There’s that one line.

And centuries of liberal democracies where the church was just one institution that had no direct rule over its subjects?

Re: Pope Francis has died

#480

Post by kelnos »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #288
southernplaces7 wrote: post #268

So Pope Francis departs for a meeting with his boss perhaps? Jokes aside, he seemed like a genuinely decent human being and enough of a humanist to cast aside some of the drier absurdities surrounding the bureaucracy of Catholic Church administration, and ideology. Even as someone who's deep in the skeptically agnostic camp on any questions about supreme creators (after all even a firm atheist can't be absolutely sur…

> after all even a firm atheist can't be absolutely sure there is no genuine God Why so? There is no reason for one to exist so not having one is the obvious case. We could of course assume anything, that we are av stylization, that the world is a large ice cream, that what we see is not the reality, whatever If we go for that, sure, we cannot be sure of anything. But we then must also believe that we may live in a l…

> Why so?

Because it can't be proven either way. An atheist who claims to know for certainty that there is no god is expressing a religious, faith-based viewpoint. I guess that isn't necessarily at odds with being an atheist, but part of why I'm an atheist is that I try to avoid believing in things that aren't provable and don't fit existing evidence.

> If we go for that, sure, we cannot be sure of anything.

We can be sure of things that have been proven using the scientific method. Certainly we can't be 100% sure, because that method is applied by fallible humans. But it's silly to suggest that levels of sureness don't matter; I can be more sure about the idea that we don't live in a giant ice cream than of other things, and that's fine.

But I think it's true that we can't really be sure of anything... and that's also fine.

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