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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

techspot.com

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#471

Post by jnurmine »

DJHenk wrote: post #466
megablast wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, very few people want their phones water-proof (what for?). This is insane. So that rain doesn’t destroy it? So that spilling a drink doesn’t destroy it? So that dropping it in the toilet doesn’t destroy it?

> This is insane. So that rain doesn’t destroy it? So that spilling a drink doesn’t destroy it? So that dropping it in the toilet doesn’t destroy it? If rain destroys your phone that is just plain incompetence from the design department. Or rather, they were not incompetent, but other forces made sure they were not paying much attention to water resistance. My wettest experience with a smartphone was when I got surpr…

There's rain and there's rain.

Once my Google Nexus 4 died because of rain. Normal rain was no problem ever with it, even to make calls in a rain. But one day it rained very heavily with a wind so strong it was hard to walk against it. It felt like being in a carwash for ~ 10 minutes.

I was waterlogged up to my underwear. Nexus 4 was in my pocket and died. I put it to a bunch of rice and let it airdry. After it dried, the phone acted weirdly.

Lesson learnt: if the product doesn't specifically indicate a high level of water protection level, consider it not having ANY protection. "Resistant against spills" and other handwavy marketing mumbo jumbo has zero substance.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#472

Post by sime2009 »

danpalmer wrote: post #6

I love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. I'm glad we're getting USB-C on the iPhone, but it wasn't a huge problem and it was probably coming anyway in the next few years. But replacea…

> but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts.

You do realise that the EU gave the industry (i.e. the "experts") the task of defining and agreeing on a standard for charging cables? The manufacturers worked on this and agreed on USB-C, all except one US based fruit company.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#473

Post by enachtry »

martin8412 wrote: post #440
jrm4 wrote: post #143

Just broadly, let me just echo my full throated support for regulation in this space. Forget the vast majority of the goofy "innovation" arguments I hear, the fact that 3 family cell phones, 2 laptops, Steam Deck, Nintendo Switch, and Oculus can all use the same charger makes insanely more sense that what we were doing before.

The Nintendo Switch charger isn't standards compliant, and if you use another charger, it might not be able to keep up with the power draw of the Nintendo Switch.

It will be. Supporting USB PD over USB-C is mandatory if they want to keep selling in EU. Nintendo is more than welcome to subvert EU's requirements and find out how that goes.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#474

Post by pishpash »

chongli wrote: post #56
unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

So is it waterproof capability or planned obsolescence? You all make it sound nefarious when it is just PM's doing what PM's do.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#475

Post by fsflover »

deelowe wrote: post #120
surgical_fire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please, EU: bring a law that forces manufacturers to release their drivers / firmware whenever they stop updating a digital device. I wish I could upvote this more. It's a crime how I had to throw away in the past perfectly usable devices because they were forced into obsolescence.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

Here is how a small company has done it: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#476

Post by [deleted] »

jenadine wrote: post #428
jacknews wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, the subheading 'Sleek slabs could soon be a thing of the past' is bogus. This is not a requirement to have 'cartridge' user-replaceable batteries, just that you should be able to open the phone and remove the battery (not much emphasis on actually replacing it) with easily available tools, rather than heatguns, solvents, proprietary glass-pullers etc.

Are heatguns and solvents not "commercially available tools"?

[deleted]

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#477

Post by tiarafawn »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

They made plans to enforce manufacturers to provide updates for longer (3/5 years for OS/security updates) [1]. Though you might argue that 3/5 years is not enough, this seems like a more effective way to elongate the lifespan of an average user's phone who might not be comfortable with installing and using an alternative OS.

Not sure what the latest update on this is. IIRC the planned penalty was to make the manufacturer give full refunds to the consumer for devices that violate the requirement.

[1] https://www.androidauthority.com/eu-smartphone-updates-rules...

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#478

Post by enachtry »

Ekaros wrote: post #14

Next step should be mandatory software updates. For something like 7 years from initial sale. Which would allow 2 years of normal sale cycle and then at end 5 year of support.

Not like that. There's a much simpler solution. Make it mandatory to have written on box just like any other tech spec, the minimum date until when security updates will be provided, the cadence of updates and their nature (e.g. for Android could be upstream updates).

There is already legislative warranty framework around compliance to promised specs. This means if the date is not honored, customers can turn against stores and return the products. Stores can then return against distributors/manufacturers, etc.

Also forbid sales of any network connected devices (phones, tablets, TVs, routers, etc) past that date because it's a wide security risk, particularly for people who are IT analphabets.

You'll then see how spectacularly quickly everyone lines up to security update schedules and standards. They will also find a way to prolong the date for devices that sell well.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#479

Post by vasco »

Zuiii wrote: post #412
rahimnathwani wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but all EU states are members of WIPO, and their governments can't take away protection of foreign-owned IP without violating their international obligations.

So violate them they should. Realistically, I'm sure there's a loophole they can leverage to achieve these. The EU is a major party to the WIPO and other members will likely be open to "renegotiating" if the alternative is the EU leaving completely rendering the WIPO pointless. The US pulled this stunt many times with other international orgs and treaties.

The US created WIPO and bullied everyone else to join, there's a big difference in what you can do when you're the one with the world's biggest army by a long shot.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#480

Post by zhrvoj »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

Aha..just the matter of forcing obsolescence in order to raise profits in modern economy. Please excercise only on yourself, not on me. Another thing, it may be useless from your point of view. But most of the people are using phone just for calling - strange isn't it :) ?
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